1/4 In

During my A1-Class last night I called the following: Starting formation: T-bone boxes after heads pass thru from a Static Square. The call was: everybody quarter in. I expected the heads to face each other in the center. A few graduated dancers asked me why, because they learned to face the center of each half of the set. That's how I learned it, too. But according to the definition I think the partner rule has a higher priority then the each side rule. Am I right or wrong?

The reference point is determined by dividing the set in halves until all dancers in each section have the same center point. Dancers then work relative to that center point. That means, that from a 2x4 formation, dancers work in each 2x2.

Ceder Chest Definition of 1/4 In | Out

1/4 Mix
How many parts to 1/4 (or 3/4) mix? (Ceder Chest has 3 - like swing and mix; but is this generally agreed to?)

And, yes, it is agreed upon!

Historical note: the original call was Swing & Mix, a 3-part call (Arm Turn 1/2; Centers Cross Run; Centers Trade). Soon, there was 1/4 Mix, 3/4 Mix, and just plain Mix. Callerlab dropped Swing & Mix from the A2 list and added Mix to the A1 list.

4 By 4
Would you be so kind as to define the 4 by 4 definition. I heard that Ben called from lines facing 4 by 4 circle to a wave and got a column and I know what he did but what is the definition? It works the same as disconnected doesn't it?

Basically on a 4 By 4 call,

1. Find two sets of 4 dancers, in which the dancers in each set are facing the same direction. For example, R-H Columns, or Facing Lines.
2. The End dancers in each group of 4 pretend that the centers are not there, and do the call, but do the call in a wider manner to allow room for the centers before, during, and after the call.
3. The Centers imagine there is a string tied to the top of the heads for all dancers in their group of 4. The Centers then stay in between the Ends, moving in the same manner as the Ends to do the call.

The Centers are often referred to as the 'cheese' (between the two end slices).

n By m Zing

Is there a specific definition for "n By m Zing". It doesn't seem to follow the rules for "n By m" Concept. If you have R-H Columns and do a "3 By 1 anycall" and if the anycall is a 4 Dancer Call, you normally find 2 Groups of 4 Dancers, who do the call independantly. But on a 3 By 1 Zing all 8 dancers work together, danced like #1,#2 and #3 work "Tandem of 3" 1/2 "3-some", all Zing. Can you help me?

In the old days, somebody would write a call (e.g. "Zing").

Somebody would write the Magic version (e.g., "Magic Zing"), somebody would write the Interlocked version (e.g., "Interlocked Zing"), somebody would write the Cross version (e.g., "Cross Zing"), and so on... (i.e., somebody would write a "n By m Zing").

Today, things are much more strict as to how we treat concepts. As such, some call extensions (e.g., "n By m Zing") are no longer considered legal.

It is my opinion, that, if I called "n By m Zing" at a strong C4 floor, several dancers would be confused, some old-time dancers might do the call, and, once the floor figured it out and did it, several dancers would give me disapproving signs.

{anyone} Hop
From a Starting DPT, can you call 'Centers Hop' and expect the centers to pass thru as the outsides half sashay and all hinge?

It violates the gestalt that {anyone} Hop is a 4-dancer call. It's like calling Wheel Thru from a L-H Wave (all are Belles, so all 1/4 Right). It irritates the senses.

From a Starting DPT, you could call "Centers Start Everyone Hop", which would have the Centers Pass Thru, then all Hinge.

Or, you could call "Triple Box Trailers Hop" which would give you what you wanted above.

Ceder Chest Definition of anyone Hop

{anyone} Tie
I cannot find the definition for {anyone} Tie anywhere. What is it?

{anyone} Tie:

From applicable Columns (usually Completed DPT).

Designated dancers

   Peel Off; Circulate; Bend The Line.

Others

   Peel Off; Bend The Line; Circulate.

Usually ends in Two-Faced Lines.

Cross {anyone} Tie:

Trail Off instead of Peel Off.

Notes:

• {anyone} is usually Beau or Belle (e.g., Beau Tie; Cross Belle Tie).
• (Cross) {anyone} Tie is a 3-part call.

{anything} the Fractions
What is the definition for "{anything} the Fractions"?

It can best be defined by example:

From Magic Columns (Ends L-H, Centers R-H), have the Centers Peel To A Diamond. From here, I could call

"Alternate from Center Diamond to Wave-Based Triangle: Circulate The Fractions".

The (R-H) Center Diamond would Circulate 1;
The (L-H) Wave-Based Triangles would Circulate 2;
The (R-H) Center Diamond would Circulate 3;
The (L-H) Wave-Based Triangles would Circulate 2;
The (R-H) Center Diamond would Circulate 1.

{call1} But {call2}
I have some questions please concerning the use of call-1 BUT call-2. Does the first call have to be an all 8 call? And if not, does call-2 have to be a subset of call-1? alter the diamond BUT snake (2 of 4) alter the diamond but 1/4 thru (2 of each 4) Can the second call be an all 8 call where the centers default to their part? chisel thru but expand ride the tide but change your image

To me, 'but' is a case-by-case situation, with a few generalizations:

1. Replace the final centers cast off 3/4 with the centers doing the given call (TALLY HO BUT)
2. Everybody replace the last part of the call with the given call (LINE TO LINE BUT, SPIN THE PULLEY BUT)
3. Centers replace the last part of the call with the given call. So, then, I'm never sure what the caller wants for a NUCLEAR REACTION BUT. Does the caller want the centers to take the "but" call, or everyone? It's clear if the caller says "Nuclear Reaction But Centers Scoot Back" versus "Nuclear Reaction But Scoot Chain Thru".
4. Other instances:
   1. Flip Back But Centers Spin The Top
   2. Along But Circulate Twice
   3. Square the Bases But Outsides start a Split Dixie Sashay
   4. Chase Right But Boys Swing Thru
   5. Swing An Anchor But Flip Back (the centers replace the last TWO parts)
   6. Flippers Flow But Criss Cross It (the 'but' is part of the call name)
   7. Pass The Axle But Cast 1/4

I think of 'but' as a tool that the caller can use ANYWHERE he/she likes anywhere within the call. Evidence of this can be seen even at lower-level dances where the caller says "Chain Reaction But Star 1/2", or "Spin Chain & Exchange the Gears but Promenade in Single File",.

"But" is usually used as a version of "Replace".

All 4 Couples - Ending Formation

From squared set: All 4 couples pass thru All 4 couples chase right or All 4 couples partner hinge and roll All 8 pass and roll Do those examples give generalized squared sets/Alamo ring? How do you decide, which one is right, when dancing other calls with same ending positions? I'm a little confused about this. Recently I danced the later one, and the floor was informed about Alamo ring as the ending position.

1. If the 4-dancer call ends in a Box, the All Four Couples version ends in a Generalized Squared Set;
2. if the 4-dancer call ends in a Line, Wave Column, or Diamond, the All Four Couples version ends in a Thar or Promenade;
3. if the 4-dancer call ends in a "Z", who knows?

All Four Couples Pass Thru ends in a Squared Set with Everyone Facing Out.

All Eight Chase Right ends in a Squared Set with Everyone in a R-H Mini-Wave.

All Eight Pass & Roll ends in a Squared Set with Everyone in a R-H Mini-Wave.

See also http://www.ceder.net/def/all4couples.php

All 4 Couples Quarter In

I am a square dancer living over in England and dancers are confused by being instructed different ways to carry out two calls from the A2 programme. It has been suggested that I contact you to get your view as to how dancers should execute the calls, which I hope, will resolve the confusion. Both calls start from a normal Static Square. The question is how would you expect the dancers to execute the calls: All Four Couples 1/4 In All Four Couples Pass In I thank you in anticipation of you assistance.

All 4 Couples 1/4 In:

The use of this call is somewhat of a gimmick, used by callers to determine if dancers really understand the All 4 Couples Concept.

This is often danced as Everybody 1/4 In (toward Partner) then backup and slide together to reform Couples (Heads are now at the Side position and vice-versa, everybody is half-sashayed).

However, I believe that the correct way to dance this call is for everyone to pass by their corner (right-shoulders and without turning) to end in their corner's starting position, then 1/4 In to re-form a squared set.

All 4 Couples Pass In:

Pass corners right-shoulders (without turning), and then Pass In with the next dancer. Ends in a squared set.

All 8 Box Transfer
Can please you explain the move All 8 Box Transfer when you start from a squared set after the boys running around the girls to form miniwaves? What is the final formation?

All Eight Box Transfer:

Trailers (Girls) walk forward to form a R-H Star; Star 3/4, then walk forward.

Leaders (Boys) do like a Cross Cloverleaf and Half Sashay.

Ends in a squared-set-like formation, everyone with R-H, original partner (Boys Facing In, Girls Facing Out). Each pair has moved 1/4 clockwise (i.e., couple #1 is now at couple #4's position; couple #4 is now at couple #3's position, etc.)

All 8 Wheel Thru
All 8 Wheel Thru (is there a definition available?) From a standard square facing in to the square.

The Jay King definition: http://www.ceder.net/oldcalls/viewsingle.php?RecordId=4320 From a squared set: The Belle in each couple takes a step forward, does a Quarter Right and steps forward to face out in the right hand couple's spot. Beaux make a right hand star and turn it 3/4 and walk straight out beside original partner (keeping partner on their right). Finishes in a squared set with couples facing out.

The Burleson's definition: (entry 921) From a squared set: The right-hand dancer of each couple will move over to face the right-hand position of the set and face out. The left-hand dancer will make a right-hand star and turn it 1/2 and then turn to face out to end standing on the left of their original partner. Ending position is that all four couples have led out to the right and are facing out. (All eight wheel thru.)

Allemande Left

Someone said that you might be the expert on this.... so the caller has the girls sashay and then head men in for a teacup chain.... and at the end of that my partner (a girl) is on my left. Then he calls an Allemande Left.... so who is my corner??? am I doing it 1) with the person I think is my partner who also happens to be on my left? or do I do it 2) with the person on my right that would appear to be my corner. Note that after that the caller called a wrong way grand, so clearly he was thinking we should do option #2. thanks a lot

Technical answer:

Option 1 is correct. Option 2 is wrong.

If you take a piece of string and connect all 8 dancers in a 'circle', the Man's corner is located clockwise on the circle.

Real world answer:

Square dancing is a folk activity. Different interpretations and sloppy calling abound. Do what the caller wants, and don't complain.

Allemande Left, and Right And Left Grand are sex-dependent calls.

On Allemande Left, Boys use the Girl clockwise to them for a Left Arm turn (usually 1/2, but can be 1/4 or 3/4), and drop hands to face counter clockwise around the circle; similarly, on Right And Left Grand, Boys move counter clockwise around the circle.

Allemande Right
I would like to know how to do an Allemande Right.

It is similar to an Allemande Left, but the right-hand is used. It may be done with either the partner or the corner. The caller may specify with whom to do the call (for example, "Allemande Right your Partner").

Allemande Right is an old-time call, rarely used anymore in Modern Western Square Dancing. Nowadays, callers usually either say "Turn the Partner by the Right", or "Turn Thru" instead.

Allemande Thar
I have been unable to find the definition for an Alamande Thar. Do you know if it is in any of the definitions?

For example, please look at the pictures on page http://www.ceder.net/def/crossby.php?language=usa&level=c1. The 2nd thru 4th diagrams are Thar-formations. In particular, the 4th picture, in which the Boys (squares) are in the center, and the Girls (circles) are on the outside, and everyone has left-hands joined, is more indicative of what is meant by most callers when they think of an "Allemande Thar".

The words "Allemande Thar" are also used directionally in calls.

For example,

• Allemande Left hang on make an Allemande Thar
  1. Face your corner if necessary;
  2. Left-forearm turn 1/2 way or more and hang on;
  3. Boys connect their right-forearms in the center to form a star.
• Allemande Left go forward two to an Allamenade Thar
  1. Face your corner if necessary;
  2. Left-forearm turn 1/2 way;
  3. Drop hands and step forward to end back-to-back with your corner;
  4. Right-handshake pull by with the next dancer to end back-to-back with them;
  5. Left-forearm turn 1/2 way with the next dancer but hang on this time;
  6. The new centermost dancers connect their right-forearms in the center to form a star.

Any Hand
Can you call any hand from a three and one line (or any same facing couple)? At C1? at A2? If so would the first call if it is a 1/4 turn be a partner hinge or a push cast?

That is, the dancers starting the call must ARM TURN (with 'any hand') to begin the call. Later during the call, 'push casts' are allowed when centers and ends interact, and 'partner trades' are allowed when centers need to turn 1/2.

Hence, the starting position should usually be an Inverted Box (one RH mini-wave + one LH mini-wave).

From a funny diamond (e.g., a RH diamond after one of the points u-turn back), you could call an Any Hand 1/4 Thru, which would end in a 3x1 Line.

Any Hand
At the advanced level can any hand swing thru be called from a three and one line? If so what does each side of the line do first?

Those starting the call must be in a Mini-Wave, hence the first part of the call is an ARM TURN, never a (Couple) TRADE nor a 'push' CAST.

The TWO-FACED concept (on the C3B list) is used for your aforementioned instance of Swing Thru. In this case, the first part for everyone is a PARTNER TRADE.

Any Hand Remake
From facing lines boys centers girls ends: Slide thru; Any hand remake (remake being a 2 cpl call, except in Thars/Alamos); The first two parts seem clear. But, for inside couples, who push casts around whom? I was under the impression the couples closest to the centers has the end acting as the pivot. Or, is it the other way? What if the call is Grand Remake, making it no longer a 2 cpl call?

If the call is ANY HAND GRAND REMAKE, the final push cast is still relative to the center of each line of 4. Ends in an Eight Chain Thru formation.

Anything To A Wave

Do you have any problem with the following: Explode the Wave (or Line) to a Wave Snap the Lock to a Wave Horseshoe Turn, Centers to a Wave All seem to be in line with the definition but never seem to get called. Probably Explode the Wave to a Wave is superfluous as it's simply a Lockit equivalent. I use Snap the Lock to a Wave quite frequently but find it a bit disturbing that no-one else seems to be using it (as far as I'm aware). Any thoughts?

Case 1 and 3 are probably not called because they're so quick, and it'd be hard to get the entire phrase out before the dancers finished the call then realized that you said "To A Wave".

Case 1: is usually just a Lockit or Cross Lockit, or better yet, an Explode And Step To A Wave (or Touch).

Case 2: I call "Snap The Lock, Centers To A Wave" all the time.

Case 3: I've heard callers say "Horseshoe Turn, Centers 1 & 1/2". I don't necessarily like this since my definition of Partner Tag is 1/4 In + Pass Thru, and 1 & 1/2 ends Facing, not in a Mini-Wave.

Beaus | Belles
I'm a caller who occasionally calls A2. What can I do at A2 with Beaus and Belles?

Choreographically, I've found that the usage of Beaus and Belles is primarily limited to the following calls: Run, Trade, U-Turn Back. Other applicable calls include Roll, 1/4 In, 1/4 Out, and Fold.

Here's some examples:

From Out-Facing Lines:

Beaus Run

From In-Facing Lines:

Belles Crossover Circulate

From Double Pass Thru:

Belles only Zoom

From Facing Couples:

Beaus do your part Wheel Thru

From Completed Double Pass Thru:

Beaus only Checkmate The Column

From Completed Double Pass Thru:

Beaus Right Roll To A Wave as Belles Zig-Zag

From Facing Couples:

Beaus Walk, Belles Dodge

From Parallel Two-Faced Lines:

Ferris Wheel, Beaus Roll

Big Block CONCEPT
At a recent festival, a friend and I had a discussion with the caller on one of the things he did: Starting formation: Big Blocks (of the interlocked Blocks type) with everybody in "Facing Lines". The call was 'Big Block Swing Thru'. My friend and I thought that this changes the shape to an 1 by 8 that cannot unambiguously be brought back to the Big Block foot prints. What do you think?

There are (at least) two things the caller could have wanted:

1. Start working Big Block, but end normal. If the caller wanted such a thing, he/she should be explicit as in Big Block Grand Swing Thru To A (Tidal) Wave (or To a Normal Setup, or Start Big Block, End Normal...).
2. Reform the Big Block footprints. I'm clueless about how this would actually be accomplished! This is, however, what the dancers should expect from the Big Block concept. You must end on one of the Big Block footprints. For example, from Big Block "Waves", the call could be Big Block Switch To An Hourglass. Although this call doesn't physically end in 2x4 formation, it is possible for everyone to unambiguously find an ending spot in the original eight Big Block positions.

Along the same lines, I once had the opportunity to dance to a C1 caller would called things such as In Your Block Swing Thru, and he wanted the dancers to step forward after the Swing Thru to reform the Block positions. Very strange. I wonder what the caller would want if the call ended in a Two-Faced, 3 And 1, or a One-Faced Line?

Ceder Chest Definition of Big Block

Bounce The {anyone} #1
From a 1/4 Line formation (e.g., from static square heads travel thru) what happens on the call Heads Bounce The Sides? Do the people that U-Turn Back need to be in the active two faced line?

If you called:

Heads Travel Thru; Bounce The Sides;

I would expect the Heads to Veer back-to-back, and the Sides to do nothing.

If you want the Sides to do a U-Turn Back, then you should say one of the following:

1. Heads Start Bounce The Sides;
2. Initially Centers Bounce The Sides;
3. Initially Heads Bounce The Sides.

In any case, I find this kind of choreography aesthetically unpleasing and gimmicky. I think the best thing is to drop this idea.

Also, a pet peeve of mine is that I believe callers should not omit the {anyone} dancers. That is, some callers simply call Bounce when they mean Bounce Nobody.

Ceder Chest Definition of Bounce anyone

Bounce The {anyone} #2
What do I do on the call 'Everybody Bounce'?

'Everybody Bounce' means everybody is active and all do the call 'Bounce'. Hence this means to 'Bounce Nobody'. Personally, I believe that the callers should always specify the designated dancers (e.g., Bounce Everybody or Bounce Nobody). I do not like it when callers use 'Bounce' to mean 'Bounce Nobody'. They certainly don't do this with similar calls such as 'Patch' or 'Tap'. Have you ever heard a caller just say 'Patch' and expect everyone to do a 'Patch Nobody'???. I don't like it. I also think that callers should be required to give the direction for calls such as Spin Tag The Deucey.

Ceder Chest Definition of Bounce anyone

Cast A Shadow
Can the ends roll after the Cast Off 3/4 & Spread ?

Only the "shadowers" (those doing the Cloverleaf) can Roll after Cast A Shadow.

Ceder Chest Definition of Cast A Shadow

Cast A Shadow from a Thar
Is it possible when dancers are in the thar (heads in one wave) to call heads start cast a shadow? If yes how to do it? Our caller explined us that we should make two waves center heads are leaders and ends heads are trailers and then do cast a shadow. For me it is a bit strange. Does it exist?

Cast A Shadow can be done from a Promenade by designating who the Leaders are. "Heads Lead Cast A Shadow" is equivalent to adjusting to Parallel Lines with the Heads As Leaders then doing a Cast A Shadow.

The example above, with Heads in one wave and sides in another, doesn't work because All Heads would have to be Leaders, which isn't possible.

If, however, it were the case that the Heads were on the End in one wave, and in the Center in the other, it would work.

Central Percolate
"Central Percolate" and "Central Perk up" are C4A not C3 in a database of Sue's version of Sd program. Lynette said: Vic has some disagreement with the above two calls. I understood what it was and quit calling them, but don't remember the reason now. Please tell me what you think.

Central means that dancers are to do the Center's part of a call. If you look at Percolate, it can be done from many different formations, such as an Eight Chain Thru (in which case the Center's part is to Circulate 1 & 1/2 and do a Turn Thru), Facing Lines (in which case the Centers Circulate 1 & 1/2, become part of the center wave, & do a Hinge & Cross), and Parallel Waves (in which case two of the original centers gets to do the Turn Thru, and two of the original centers get to do the Hinge & Cross). When Central Percolate is called I don't know what to do.

After talking to Lynette back & forth with several e-mail messages, I finally asked her "What is the Centers part of a Circulate?". She replied with something like: "I don't know. I guess I shouldn't call Central Percolate any more".

In summary, when the caller calls a Central Percolate, I know what they want, but it feels wrong. Perhaps we need a concept such as Piecewise (Piecewise Central Percolate?) in order to make it legitimate?

A similar problem is when a caller calls something like Cross Concentric Counterpoint, where they want the Centers to do the centers part of the call but end on the outside, and they want the outsides to do the outsides part of the call but end in the center. I know what they want, but it isn't 100 percent correct. We probably need a concept for kind of choreo too.

Change-O
The definition of Change-O. From the 3 sources I consult (Rubright, Alexander, Galburt) I'll get #1 and 2 Circulate; #3 and 4 Triple Cross (I would say Cross Over Circulate). However Alexander and Galburt has the same definition from Magic Columns. I guess that you have to Say Magic Change-O and #1 and 2 Magic Circulate?

Change-O:

From applicable Columns (usually R-H or L-H Columns).

#1 & #2 Circulate as Others Crossover Circulate.

Normal Columns end in Magic Columns.

There is no Triple Cross in Change-O. Nobody touches anybody & the shoulder pass is always a right-shoulder pass. Our definition also works from Columns of 3.

Reverse Change-0:

From applicable Columns (usually Magic Columns).

Ends Circulate as Centers Crossover Circulate.

Same as Rewind Change-O.

From Magic Columns, Reverse Change-O is either a Right-Wing Circulate or Left-Wing Circulate.  :-)

Change-O converts normal Columns to Magic Columns;
Reverse Change-O converts Magic Columns to normal Columns.

As for Magic Change-O, I've never heard such a call. If I encountered it, I would assume (from Columns of 4) that

• #1 Circulate
• #2 Magic Circulate
• #3 Crossover Circulate
• #4 Magic Crossover Circulate, which would amount to a normal Circulate

Checker Board / Box

Are you in the process of rewriting or refining the definition for Checkerboard/Box? I ask because Dave Wilson recently used it from the following formation . . 2B> 2G> 3G< 3B> 1B< 1G> 4G< 4B< . . He called Checkerbox Touch 1/4 and wanted the Boys to Trade while the Girls Z Touch 1/4 (in effect). I queried it with him and he said you were OK with it. It does seem to give rise to some interesting possibilities. However I always thought that the idea was to start and end with a 2x4. I note your definition refers to "other appropriate formations" but later refers to ending with 2x4s. If your intention is that the above starting formation is legitimate and that the Girls simply Z Touch 1/4 (while the Boys Trade), then that doesn't seem to be covered adequately by the current definition (which specifically refers to a 2x4 ending formation). Hence my question.

The general idea is "those facing out, who are sort of in lines, Trade; as the others do the given call in a distorted formation." Of course, as with any distorted formation call, dancers must end on footprint spots.

I have used Checker from:

1. From Mini-Wave Columns after 1/4 Invert The Column + End of Center Wave Press Ahead;
2. From Parallelogram Waves;
3. The corresponding T-Bone formation for #1 above.
4. From Back-to-Back Lines after End Belle Fold; (e.g., Checker Board Pass & Roll Your Neighbor)
5. From C1-Phantom Couples;
6. From Parallel Waves after Press Ahead + Outside Phantom Columns Circulate;

Checker Board | Box {anything}

From parallel L-H waves, our caller called "Checkerbox Swap The Top". After the Leads Trade, "Swap The Top" ends in a 1x4 perpendicular to the former leads who traded and are pointing where we should go. I was in the 1x4, and didn't know where to go. So, I just went to the empty spot!! When the set was over, I questioned our caller. He said that if you end up in a 1x4, perpendicular to the other dancers, you just step back slightly and then go to the nearest spot where the former leads are pointing to. My question to you is: is our caller's answer the right answer? A friend of mine ran this sequence through your program and it gave an error message: Heads Pair Off, Mirror Touch, Checkerbox Swap The Top Any response would be appreciated.

Checker Box Swap The Top can't be done from that formation. There is no precedence for stepping forward -- you could just as well step backward. Those doing the Swap the Top must be able to end in a distorted wave. Stepping forward nullifies this and gives a distorted box, not a distorted wave.

Checker Box Swap The Top is possible from a T-Bone formation.

Ceder Chest Definition of Checker Board | Box anything

Checkmate the Column
I call thru A2 & workshop some C1 stuff. I have a question for, hoping you can help me out. Checkmate the Column. Could you please explain to me how this move is done from a completed double pass thru formation?? I have been workshopping this move knowing that some callers use it from the completed DPT set up.

From a Completed Double Pass Thru, I explain that all dancers are #1 and #2 in the Columns. What do #1 and #2 do? They do 4 Column Circulates and 1/4 In. First I have just the Belles go, show them where they end up, then I have the original Beaus go. I then put everybody back and tell them that they must pass right-shoulders with any dancers they meet. I mention that the movement is similar to Track 2, but go a little further, and all Face In (in fact, it is a Track 4 and 1/4 In).

Ceder Chest Definition of Checkmate (The Column)

Checkpoint
From Right hand point to point diamonds, have the centers of each diamond single wheel. Now, in a checkpoint call, may I have the checkpointers do an 8-person call such as "checkpoint, regroup by swing thru?" The two versions of SD seem to diasagree on this. One version seems to think the checkpointers are ends while the other seems to think it's ambiguous.

Ceder Chest Definition of Checkpoint

Circle Left And Roll
Your opinion on circle left ... do dancers have a turning body flow to the right and therefore can roll? This is, can you call Circle left ... and roll?

1. an indeterminate amount to Circle, or
2. an actual Circle formation (as opposed to a Box formation).

For instance, from a squared set, all join hands, Circle Left... Roll is inappropriate.

However, from a squared set, Heads Lead Right, Circle 1/2 & Roll, I believe is valid.

Clockwise Jay
I ran across Clockwise jay and have no idea how to work it. Can you give me what is wanted. It started out like this: Heads pass the sea Side girl run Clockwise jay follow thru

Hence, from the starting formation above, I'd have couple #3 work with couple #4, and couple #1 work with couple #2.

This goes against my gestalt of jay, because I would want the two center dancers who are facing the same direction to work in the same jay.

I have recently talked to the caller in question about this.

What the caller wanted (and should have said) was Clockwise "Z"s.

That is, each center pair of dancers work with the two outside positions that are clockwise to them, as the outside pairs work with the two inside positions that are clockwise to them. (similar to the Trace CONCEPT)

Cloverleaf
Is Cloverleaf a box call? Can Cloverleaf be done from Mini-Wave Columns, Out-Facing Lines, Starting DPT? Recently, I danced to a caller who was using it this way.

In my opinion, the caller is incorrectly using the call Cloverleaf.

For Cloverleaf, dancers move away from the center of the set, not from the Center of the Box. For instance, consider 'Heads Pass Thru' followed by 'Heads Cloverleaf'. They do not work in the Center Box (that is, they do not end in the center). They also do not work in their own (split) box of 4 (that is, they do not cloverleaf away from the center of their split box). They cloverleaf away from the center of the set.

The caller is (incorrectly) assuming that Cloverleaf is the same as the (now C4 call) Peel The Deal, which starts in a Mini-Wave Box or Tandem Couples, and ends in a Starting Single DPT formation.

Cross
I am having a problem with the concept of "Cross." Is it loosely used? Sometimes when it is used, the inside hand is used as in Cross and Turn and sometimes the outside hand is used as in Cross By. Perhaps after I get your book and explore all the uses, the confusion will be clarified.

1. the opposite hand is used; (e.g., Cross Your Neighbor)
2. dancers go past the center line; (e.g., Cross Run)
3. someone goes across to the other side (e.g., <anything> & Cross);
4. or, a Pass Thru is replaced with a Cross Trail Thru or a diagonal Pass Thru (i.e., Jaywalk); or a Circulate is replaced with a Crossover Circulate.

"Cross" is not a well-defined concept.

The "Cross" of "Cross & Turn" is of hardly any significance.

Cross Cycle
I thought that a Cross Cycle from a box is danced as a Hammerlane, but I'm getting different information from some people these days. They say that the Beau Cross Extends and turns around. Tell me it isn't so.

You can think of Cross Cycle as a (Facing) Recycle & Slither.

Ceder Chest Definition of Cross Cycle

Cross Scoot Back
Is the following definition for Cross Scoot Back found at the following site correct? If so, would Cross Scoot and Weave be Cross Scoot Back and Weave? http://www.mixed-up.com/cgi-bin/calls/call?n=63165 Trailers cross Extend, Trade, and Extend; leads u-turn back.

Cross Scoot Back:

From a Single 1/4 Tag: Cross Extend; Arm Turn 1/2; Extend. Ends in a Single 3/4 Tag.

Cross Scoot & Weave:

From a Single 1/4 Tag: Cross Extend; Arm Turn 1/2; Weave. Ends in a Wave.

Cross To A Diamond
I was working on some material the other day and maybe came up with a new call (or maybe not). I seem to have misplaced my copy of Burlesons so I wasn't sure if this call was in there "Cross to a Diamond" Centers Cross Run, New Centers Single Hinge.

Cross to a Diamond [C4]:

From Parallel Lines or other applicable formations. Centers Crossover Circulate as Ends slide together & Hinge.

Cross to a Line [C4]:

From Twin Diamonds or other applicable formations. Centers Hinge & Spread as Ends (do your part) Crossover Circulate.

Cross Roll to a Diamond [obsolete C4]:

From a Line (usually a 2FL). Centers Cross Run as Ends (phantom) Diamond Circulate (like a slide together & Hinge).

[this is a "Cross" Switch to a Diamond].

Cross Roll to a Hourglass (or Interlocked Diamond) [obsolete C4]:

From Parallel Lines. Centers Cross Run as Ends Phantom Hourglass (or Interlocked Diamond) Circulate.

Crossfire
Is crossfire allowed from Parallel Inverted Lines with the Centers Facing Out? If so, what is the end result? Is it a right-handed ocean wave? with the original ends as "leaders" in the wave? Also, is Crossfire allowed now (well, accepted as a bona fide usage) from lines facing out, to make a resulting 1/4 tag formation, or does it end up in a beginning double pass thru formation?

According to the callerlab definition, from Out-Facing Lines, Crossfire ends in a R-H 1/4 Tag. I disagree, and have written a lengthly paper about this problem. When I call Crossfire from Out-Facing Lines, I expect it to end in a Starting Double Pass Thru formation.

Our crossfire definition: http://www.ceder.net/def/crossfire.php

Also, be sure to see our lengthy discussion on crossfire problems at http://www.ceder.net/def/crossfire_controversy.php

It is my hope that Callerlab will eventually change the definition of Crossfire so that from Out-Facing Lines, it ends in a Starting Double Pass Thru formation. I suggest that if you call it from Out-Facing Lines, you

1. tell the dancers about the controversy;
2. tell them that you prefer a Starting Double Pass Thru formation;
3. and perhaps, always call a call such as Centers Swing Thru that can be done from either ending formation.

The following was taken from an Email message sent by Kip Garvey to the SD-Callers list many years ago, explaining the history of the crossfire definition:

> Because of continued controversy, it is strongly recommended
> never to call Crossfire from Lines Back-to-Back.
>
> Does anyone really need CALLERLAB to tell them this?

Those who speak to the subject (Crossfire) in this forum view it with
seemingly common clarity. What I find particularly interesting is the way
these definitional anomalies evolve. Though my recollection suffers a bit,
I recall the incident Clark references: The defining of Crossfire to
result in a 1/4 tag when done from lines of 4 facing out.

Like many other things decided at CALLERLAB, this issue was based on a
then-current workshop application of the call that many traveling callers
were using at the time. The discussion and debate was not necessarily
based on technical issues of the call, but rather, and more so, on the
then current application of the call by callers of some particular
stature. Now, who's more likely to convince the majority, the popular,
name brand caller? Or the lesser known (perhaps) but more technically
correct caller who's viewpoint and presentation is technical and is based
on technical terms unfamiliar to the large majority of voters (like, "4
person versus 8 person call")? And let's face it, there continues to be a
level of distrust, though much less conspicuous today than in the late
'70's, among the non-technical crowd toward those whose interests are more
technically inclined.

This particular peculiarity of the CALLERLAB organization has existed from
day one: The more popular callers in the organization are not necessarily
(and often not entirely) the more technically knowledgeable. Yet, their
input in the decision making process is often given undue weight based
mostly on popularity.

This is why I caution callers from viewing everything that is published by
CALLERLAB as being the final and incontrovertible last word, especially
our European friends many of whom believe the CALLERLAB definitions are
the bible. We need a central organization like CALLERLAB, among other
reasons, to be a forum where we can fine tune such items as the definition
of Crossfire. But we must also recognize that the process is compendious,
an amalgamation of strongly felt opinions, that influence the output
sometimes in a negative way. I love the process. I don't see any other
viable alternative, other than appointing some group or individual with
ultimate imprimatur powers, which simply will never work in this industry.
Hell, it barely works for the Catholic church!

There is much hope. Many of us, Clark especially, work diligently to bring
these issues before the general members so progress in call definition
refinement continues with regularity. There has been much resistance to
change in the CALLERLAB organization, but less so today than in the past.
Most of the problems, I feel, are structural, organizational, and
procedural. We have worked in the last few years to correct this within
CALLERLAB. I am optimistic about the subtle, unpublished changes going on
inside the organization and urge you all to continue to pour on the
"juice" while we work to make CALLERLAB an organization we all can be proud
of.

Hate to end this with a preposition. Hope the Harvard guys don't mind.

Kip Garvey
Visit at http://www.kipgarvey.com for club & festival info
CALLERLAB member, BMI-ASCAP Licensed
====

Crossover Circulate #1

Is it possible to do a Crossover Circulate from Columns or Trade By formation? I recognize that it's very awkward for the #1 person in a column (just basically a u-turn back) so I would never call it, but is it wrong? Or can I call "centers Crossover Circulate" from a Trade By or Lines Facing? I see the definition on your page as "As one movement, Circulate & Half Sashay." and see columns as a possibility. One of the class members insists that the definition is "ends become centers and centers become ends", but I just see that as a teaching aid when teaching it from lines.

However, it has been my experience that at Challenge, Crossover Circulate is generalized to be a "as one movement Circulate and Half Sashay". Doing a Crossover Circulate from T-Bones is not uncommon. For example, from a Squared Set: Heads Pair Off; Touch 1/4, Boys Roll; all Crossover Circulate. The Boys are expected to Circulate and Half Sashay, and NOT do a Circulate within their 4-dancer (Distorted Box) Circulate path.

The phrase "ends become centers and centers become ends", which only works from Parallel Lines, is only a teaching aid.

Ceder Chest Definition of Crossover Circulate

Crossover Circulate #2
When is Crossover Circulate legal from column-type formations/positions?

At Challenge, we think of Crossover Circulate as "Circulate but do a Half Sashay as you go". At Advanced, there is more of a tendency to think of it as "Circulate but Ends become Centers and vice-versa".

I avoid calling Crossover Circulate when there's somebody in the #1 position of a Column. (for the #1 position in a Column, a Crossover Circulate is just a U-Turn Back. I wouldn't call it from here, as I think it may open a rat's nest of discussion)

Curli-Q
Does anybody use Curli-Q any more? It's one of my favorite calls, and I usually teach it to my beginner dancers. I am particularly interested in using the call at Challenge. What about you?

Our definition of Curlique can be found at http://www.ceder.net/def/curlique.php

Cycle & Wheel #1
What happens on Cycle & Wheel from parallel 3 and 1 line with both Ends facing in, with a left-hand Couple and the others in a left-hand mini-wave? It looks to me like after the call they are all standing on the same spot??? Am I loosing it, cause your book says that the right most couple goes first even from in-facing ends lines. Aggghhh.

The square-breathing of the above example is tight, which makes it difficult to envision the actual traffic pattern. The key is to concentrate only on one line of 4, since Cycle & Wheel is a 4-dancer call.

The Right-End and adjacent dancer do their movement & step forward a bit to become Leaders as the Left-End and adjacent dancer to their normal movement.

Ceder Chest Definition of Cycle & Wheel

Cycle & Wheel #2
When is Cycle and Wheel valid from OTHER than a 3-and-1 line? (e.g. inverted line or even two faced or one-faced lines)

At Advanced, I often call things such as Cycle And Wheel from asymmetric setups where there is one wave, and one line.

Diamond Chain Thru
In replacing the second part of "Diamond Chain Thru"... Starting from Parallel L-H waves, have centers hinge to make facing diamonds. Now "secondly use strip the diamond in diamond chain thru". What do you get?

Basically, I believe your question is "What is the last part of Diamond Chain Thru?" Is it the Very Center 4 Cast Off 3/4, or the Centers of each side Cast Off 3/4?

For consistency sake, the last part of Diamond Chain Thru must be the Very Center 4 Cast Off 3/4.

Ceder Chest Definition of Diamond Chain Thru

Diamond Swing Thru

Is it okay to call a diamond swing thru from Twin Facing Diamonds and expect the dancers to do two diamond circulates in each diamond then the very centers trade? Or would the people w/ left hands connected trade? I.e., Suppose the diamond is such that the wave dancers have a left hand wave and the points have right hands toward the diamond. So the two diamond circulates would leave the very center two dancers holding right hands. Or would you call any hand diamond swing thru or is neither scenario correct??

On the other hand, you could say one of the following:

Do Your Part Diamond Swing Thru

In this case the points would act independently of the Centers. The Centers would assume L-H Diamonds, and hence would have the Very Centers Trade then do two Diamond Circulates; The Points would assume R-H Diamonds, and hence do two Diamond Circulates.

Diamond Any Hand Swing Thru

In this case, everyone does two Diamond Circulates; then the Very Centers Trade.

In any case, the Diamond concept does not override the right-handedness of Swing Thru.

Dopaso

I wonder if you can help me resolve a disagreement at our club relating to the call 'All 8 Do Paso' from standard squared formation. One part of the club thinks it should be a normal Do Paso (as per definition). The other part thinks that you turn your partner left then walk past your corner to turn your opposite by the right, before returning again passing your corner to courtesy turn your original partner. My view is that in the standard squared formation Do Paso is and eight people call, not a four people call and therefore the normal Do Paso should be performed.

That being said, you can certainly do a 4-dancer of the call, using the A2 concept ALL FOUR COUPLES. I would not use the words "All Eight" as there's definite confusion, as these words are often superfluously inserted into call names (e.g., All Eight Circulate; All Eight Motivate, etc.).

ALL FOUR COUPLES Dopaso, certainly, in my opinion invokes the A2 concept, and is more indicative of the movement than ALL EIGHT. ALL EIGHT is usually reserved for when dancers work thru the center or some through the center as others work around the outside. ALL FOUR COUPLES is generally used when everyone works around the outside, or at least for the first part of the call. In my opinion, ALL FOUR COUPLES is the correct term, rather than ALL EIGHT, when used with Dopaso.

Double Cloverleaf
I had a dancer that went to a dance weekend. The caller called Double Cloverleaf. I'm not familiar with this call. It was called without a teach. Do you know this call? She couldn't tell me the starting or ending position, so I'm at a loss. Thanks for your help with this matter,

I like the fact that it was called without a teach! It makes it all the more challenging! :-)

I'd venture to make two guesses, however:

1. From Completed DPT: Cloverleaf; Double Pass Thru; Cloverleaf.
2. From Completed DPT: Cloverleaf; Peel The Deal (a box of 4 'cloverleaf').

Peel The Deal [C4] (Vic Andrews 1963 -- dropped from C3B in 1996): From a Mini-Wave Box or Tandem Couples. As one movement, Leaders Peel Off and Roll and Step Ahead as Trailers follow the Leaders in Tandem (i.e., Step Ahead, Peel Off, & Roll). Ends in a Single Double Pass Thru.

Double Down #1
I have a question about a new Quarterly selection on the Advanced program. Double Down ?? Do you know what it is and the definitons/starting formations ?

From Parallel Lines or applicable T-Bone 2x4s.

Out-Facing Ends and adjacent Centers (all 8) Circulate, as In-Facing Ends and adjacent Centers Split Circulate Twice.

Double Down is usually called only from Parallel Waves or Parallel Two-Faced Lines.

Parallel Waves end in Parallel Waves; Parallel Two-Faced Lines end in Facing Lines.

Cross Double Down

Out-Facing Ends and adjacent Centers CROSSOVER Circulate, as In-Facing Ends and adjacent Centers Split Circulate Twice.

Double Down is not a new call. It has been used at the C4 level for many years.

There aren't many new ideas being written any more, and most of the quarteries in recent years have been taken from the Challenge lists.

Double Down #2

What's your definition of Double Down? We were dancing a tape of this past Berkshires in workshop last night and hit a problem. Assuming we were right at the time, we had a setup that was: take magic columns, men with left hands on the ends have the lead men quarter out From here you called Double Down. To make it work, that lead man who quartered out did a circulate as did the #3 women in the column. The trailing man and the woman he was facing did 2 split circulates. I think the next call was "funny square thru 2". My definition of Double Down is that the trailing end, and the person in his partner's postion, do 2 split circulates, while the others circulate. This definition doesn't fit what we did, and doing it the way we did, I believe the rest of the sequence worked. What am I missing?

Double Down:

From Parallel Lines and applicable T-Bone 2x4s.

Out-Facing Ends and adjacent Centers (Outeractives) Circulate;

In-Facing Ends and adjacent Centers (Inneractives) Split Circulate Twice.

You did have the correct starting formation for the sequence in question:

C4-2954
%Heads% Double Star Thru,
Wave The %Sides%,
Stack The Wheel, %Boys Roll%,
Checkpoint %Left% Turn & Q %To A Wave%
   $By$ Single File Cross Cycle,
Each Side Curl Apart,
1 By 3-Some: 3/4 Run Wild,
Reverse Flip The 3 By 1 Triangle,
Initially Tandem Spin Chain & %Circulate% The Gears,
$Swing Thru$,
1/4 Stable Walk Out To A Column,
Triple Box Box Transfer,
Double Down,
Funny Square Thru 2,
Initially Concentric Tally-Ho,
Bias Circulate,
R.L.G.

The discepancy between your definition and mine is that I use 'adjacent Center' instead of 'partners position'. Unfortunately, it matters in the above sequence.

BTW, my definition makes more sense (mathematically) since it allows Double Down to be done from any symmetric 2x4 in which two ends are facing in and two ends are facing out.

Double Pass Reaction

We need help on a C3A call we heard Wed night. If the call is a Double Pass Reaction Do you do a double pass to the 1/2 Tag and then Scoot Back to a Wave and then Chain Reaction? or Do you do a double pass to the 3/4 Tag and the end u-turn Back and then Chain Reaction?? For some reason, my gut says do #1 - the net result is similar either way but! The definition on your site or calllab did not say. Thanks for your help

When you do a tagging call Reaction, you do the call to the 1/2 tag position, then Scoot Reaction.

So, do 1/2 of a Double Pass Thru (Tandem Touch), then Scoot Reaction.

Echo
I need a concise definition of the Echo concept.

Echo <concept> <anything>:

do <concept> <anything> then do <anything>. That is, do whatever is called, then drop the first concept and do the call again.

For example,

1.  Echo Tandem Swing Thru: (from Parallel Waves)

Tandem Swing Thru then Swing Thru.

2.  Echo Cross Concentric Mix: (from a Tidal Line)

Cross Concentric Mix then Mix.

3.  Echo Checkpoint Recycle By Turn Thru: (from a R-H Tidal Wave)

Checkpoint Recycle By Turn Thru then Turn Thru.

(in this case, the <concept> is "Checkpoint Recycle By".)

4.  Echo 6 By 2 Acey Deucey: (from R-H Twin Diamonds)

6 By 2 Acey Deucey, then Acey Deucey.

5.  Echo Crossover Circulate: (from Parallel Two-Faced Lines)

Crossover Circulate then Circulate.

6.  Echo Centers Partner Tag: (from Parallel R-H Two-Faced Lines after the Centers Counter Rotate 1/4)

Centers Partner then (all) Partner Tag.

Note that in the last 4 examples, what is dropped (e.g., 6 By 2, Crossover, Centers) may or may not be considered a concept.

P.S., several months ago, I was working on a Ceder Chest style definition for Echo, but I had too many unresolved questions, so I temporarily stopped working on the definition. One problem, in particular, is trying to determine what the 'concept' is. For example, why isn't "Echo Split Phantom Lines Circulate" a "Split Phantom Lines Circulate then Phantom Lines Circulate"?

Ends Bend

I have two questions concerning Ends Bend: 1) Is the ending formation in the last example (the one with Tidal Line) correct? (see http://www.ceder.net/def/endsbend.php) Centers should not move, unless they need to breathe - which, as I understand it, is done in order to get rid of the gap created by original Very Centers (along the long axis of the formation in this case). However, I would expect the original Center dancers to remain standing on the this axis. Do I understand the principle correctly? 2) What is your opinion on doing Ends Bend from a Line of Three? I think it can be done in accordance with the definition of yours as well as with the CALLERLAB one. However, the movement is not one's part of Bend the Line nor the original Ends finish facing if they were facing the same direction (they should end holding right hands)...

Ends Bend is legal from a line of 3. If both Ends were facing the same direction, they end facing each other. They do not end on the same spot with right-hands.

Exchange the Outpoint (or Inpoint) Triangles
From normal diamonds, is it legal to call Exchange the Outpoint (or Inpoint) Triangles?

Although I can't remember why, I do remember that a long time ago (15 years or so), there was a reason. I think it had to do with the fact that exchanges should flip the formation across the dividing axis like a mirror.

For example, from normal Facing Lines, do the following:

Lines Pass The Ocean Thru;
End Girl 1/2 Circulate;
Wave Based Triangles Exchange

I believe, that, in the old days, we didn't necessarily think that it ended on foot prints, hence the exchange from here ended such that the formation was flipped to the other side of the set.

Maybe the way to call the 'spots-to-spots' version is to say "Working to spots, Exchange The Inpoint Triangles"?

I've avoided calling these variations for so long, that I don't think I'd balk much if the caller expected the dancers to end in the same set of starting footprints.

In asymmetric sequences, I sometimes have a Diamond on one side and Box or a 3 By 1 Triangle on the other side. I call "Exchange The Diamond or Box (or 3 By 1 Triangle)". In such a case, I expect the formation to be flipped to the other side. I do not expect the dancers to do Circulates into the other formation ending on the original footprints.

Explode the Top and Roll
Is it "legal" to call an Explode the Top and Roll? If so, who rolls?

I'm not sure who would Roll, and how.

In some definitions of "Explode the Top", the very last person may go under the arch as in Circle To A Line, and hence would have a different turning direction than if they just "unwound" the line.

Extend from a 3/4 Tag
I was trying to use "Extend" from a 3/4 tag the line position, and I am used to seeing the centers extend to the ends to make a line. The way that you have it, the centers go behind the ends. Are we wrong when we tell the dancers, "Extend to the girls (boys) to make a line?

Extend means move to the next fractional tag position. Hence a 3/4 Tag, ends in a Full Tag. See the diagrams at http://www.ceder.net/def/extend.php

If you put helper words in there (e.g., "to make a Line"), then you're directionally calling, and whatever you can get away with is fine.

Fan The Gating {anything}

I was just listening to a Vic Ceder C4 tape. There is something I didn't understand. You had R-H Waves and you did a Fan The Gating Single Wheel And then: Center 4 Wheel & Deal ? After this was a Scatter Circulate As I understand is the "Single Wheel" only for those who end up in Couples (those who normally would bend the line) and those 4 are the Center 4. But they can't do a Wheel & Deal after this. Can you help me?

When starting from Parallel Two-Faced Lines, the Couple does the anything call, but when starting from Parallel Waves, the Mini-Wave does the anything call.

Fan The Gating {anything}:

From Parallel Waves, Two-Faced Lines, or other applicable formations.

Ends Circulate 1 & 1/2 as Centers Cast Off 3/4 and Very Centers Cast Off 3/4; Those who do not end up in the Center Line do the anything call.

Fan The Top from a Diamond
Is Fan the Top legal from diamond? It doesn't seem to fit the Callerlab definition but the CSDS choreography system allows it. What are your thoughts on this?

Our definition (with diagrams): http://www.ceder.net/def/fanthetop.php

To view all formations from which Fan The Top can be used (or at least from all formations discovered so far), do the following:

1. Start CSDS;
2. From the CSDS menu, select 'Snapshot | View a record';
3. From the new screen's menu, select 'Find | Find All';
4. Check the uppermost checkbox only (F1 Exact Call). No other checkboxes should be checked.
5. Enter 'Fan the Top' into the edit box, then press the 'OK' button at the bottom.

This will generate a listing of all possible formations that CSDS knows how to do a fan the top. Since Fan the Top is generally a 4-dancer call, 8-dancer versions of the 4-dancer call are omitted, as they are extrapolated (e.g., you will not find a Tidal Wave Fan The Top). Also, mirror image versions of the call are also omitted, since they too can be extrapolated.

The before and after pictures are shown on the right side, and you can use cursor keys to navigate thru the list.

Finish Coordinate

Can Finish Coordinate be executed from columns? My reading is that "finish" means doing Coordinate, leaving off the first part of this call. Callerlab's definition seems to say that the first part of Coordinate is Single File Circulate once and a half. If this were left off, the subsquent part of the call where the "Center 6 Trade' could not be completed from a column. Therefore the call is not valid from a Column.

At Challenge, the first part of Coordinate is a Circulate.

Coordinate:

1. Circulate;
2. 1/2 Circulate;
3. Center 6 Trade;
4. Very Centers Veer Out as Very Ends move up as in Fan The Top.

This usage derives from the C2 concept of 'anything Coordinate'.

Flip The Line
Is Flip The Line 1/2 a two (2) part call? i.e., From Parallel Waves, can I call Initially Tandem Flip the Line 1/2 and expect the first part to be Tandem Centers Run and then normal 1/2 Tag? Isn't the definition centers run and any shoulder 1/2 tag?

Ceder Chest Definition of Flip The Line

Flip The "O" | Butterfly
Can you Flip the "O" or Butterfly? Didn't we used to do Flip "X"'s and isn't an "X" a Column just like an "O" or Butterfly??

Flip The <formation>:

Those with handholds <formation> Circulate as the others Phantom Run (toward the center of the formation).

An "X" and a Butterfly occupy the same footprints, but the Circulate path is different for the #3 dancer. On an "X" Circulate, the #3 dancer does a Crossover Circulate (Concentric Split Trade Circulate).

Follow Your Neighbor
I was reading your definition for Follow Your Neighbor and I am perplexed about something. Your web page says "Leaders as one movement 1/2 Box Circulate & U-Turn Back while Trailers Extend & Arm Turn 3/4." How can this be correct? If you need a 3/4 rotation, wouldn't it be a 1/2 Box Circulate and Roll? (Or something to that effect.)

Unfortunately, there are two kinds of Folds used in square dancing:

1. the kind of Fold where the inactive dancer does not move, and the active dancer folds into the spot immediately adjancent to the active dancer to look at them (this is the default kind of Fold at the Challenge levels); and
2. the kind of Fold where an adjustment is made by all dancers to form a normalized formation (this is the default kind of Fold at mainstream).

Anyway, as an attempt to make the definition more precise, a decision was made to not use the term Fold. 1/2 Box Circulate puts the Lead dancer in the correct position, and the U-Turn Back puts them in the correct facing orientation. The 1/2 Box Circulate is a 1/4 turn, and the U-Turn Back is a 1/2 turn, which makes the total movement a 3/4 Turn.

I suppose I could have defined Follow Your Neighbor as the following:

1/2 Split Circulate; Centers Arm Turn 3/4 as Ends Roll Twice.

Fractal CONCEPT
What is the Fractal Concept?

For example, from Parallel Waves, Fractal Tally-Ho would be: 1/2 Circulate; Center Wave Cast Off 3/4 & 1/2 Box Circulate as Outsides Trade; Those who meet Arm Turn 1/4 as Others move up.

The problem with the concept is that dancers have a problem determining what is a 1/4 turn, and what isn't. For example, from a Tidal wave, on a Counter Rotate 1/4, do the very centers do a 1/4 Arm turn or not?

The original definition of Fractal said that any call in which dancers hold on to each other and turn 1/4 or 3/4 will have the fraction switched. This allowed Split Counter Rotate 1/4 to be changed to Split Counter Rotate 3/4, which did strange things to calls such as Recycle.

I need to resolve issues such as these before I start calling it again.

I once wrote up a handout on Fractal, but it isn't on the web. Sorry.

Grand Chain Eight
From the formation obtained after Double Pass Thru -- Peel to a Diamond, is it legal to call Grand Chain 8? If so, what's the resulting formation?

Since the centers are in a R-H wave, you are applying the "Ocean Wave / Facing Couples" rule. Therefore, the starting formation is the 2x4 T-Bone formation where the Ends are in Facing Lines and the Centers are in a Starting DPT. >From this position, Grand Chain Eight is not legal. However, you could call 'Ends work Split: all Grand Chain Eight'.

From Diamonds, Ends are also to be Ends of Lines. Therefore, from the starting position mentioned above, I'd expect the Ends to do their part of Grand Chain Eight (i.e., right pull by, move along to the next End, and courtesy turn), working with the Ends, and never touching the Centers). We call 'Eight By' from here a lot. What do the Centers do? I don't know.

Suppose we had a Squared Set, then have Everyone 1/4 In. Can we call a Grand Chain Eight from here? I've never called it, although I've thought perhaps we could do a right pull by, and courtesy turn the next, to end in a squared set rotated by 45 degrees. However, I am dubious of the the legality of this.

I recently came across an old call, All Eight Chain, which is exactly as I just described.

See http://www.ceder.net/oldcalls/viewsingle.php?RecordId=53

Grand Parade
How do you do a Grand Parade?

  From a Squared Set.
  
  Heads move into the middle; 
  Right Arm Turn 1/2;
  Head Boy Left Arm Turn 3/4 as
    Side Girl Veer Right (to hook onto Head Boy) as
    Side Boy Courtesy Turn Head Girl;
  all Promenade 1/2 to end in a Squared Set.

  Repeat the above once more (i.e., Heads move into the middle...)
  Then repeat the above two more times, replacing Heads with Sides and vice-versa.

Grand Sashay
I was looking at your website and was wondering if you have anything on Grand Sashay (Use in a singing call. Number of beats etc.)

Definition:

 

Grand Sashay #362 in Burleson:

Dosado right shoulder, bow and pull by with a right;
see saw left shoulder, bow and pull by with a left;
Dosado right shoulder, bow and pull by with a right;
see saw left shoulder, bow and pull by with a left.

It's a Right & Left Grand but do a dosado or see saw prior to each pull by.

We currently have 15 cue sheets in our Record Database with Grand Sashay:

http://www.ceder.net/recorddb/view.php?action=query&FindCueSheet=grand%20sashay&FindLabelId=0

My guess is that Grand Sashay takes 32 beats.

Grand Sashay was authored by Rickey Holden (San Antonio, TX) in 1949.

Grand Spin
How do you do a Grand Spin?

  From a Squared Set.

  Heads move in, Slide Thru, Spin the Top, Star Thru, 
  Step Forward, & California Twirl.

  Meanwhile, Sides face partners, backup, turn 1/4 to 
  face in, and walk forward (first 8 beats of Grand Square),
  then Dosado and Star Thru.

  Repeat the above one time, to end at Home position.

Here Comes The Judge
From a 1x8 with split inverted lines (v^^v^vv^). The call 1/2 Here Comes the Judge ends with an ajustment to a split phantom boxes type setup. My feeling is a center column of 6 with one person in each of the outside columns or a 12 matrix setup. Both your program (CSDS) and SD do the same thing.

However, I somewhat agree that perhaps it should end with a Center Column of 6. It's controversial. If I was dancing and someone called it, I probably wouldn't make a fuss either way at whatever the caller wanted just as long as I could determine the desired ending formation from the next call. (E.g., the next call had better be either "Triple Box something" or "Center Column of 6 something")

Ceder Chest Definition of Here Comes The Judge

Hinge Over
Do you have any info such as a definition and the program for the call Hinge Over?

Hinge Over

From a Single Eight Chain Thru formation.

Touch 1/4 & Slither.

Ends in a R-H Two-Faced Line.

This call is no longer used at any level.

At C4, there is a similar call named Turn Over, which is a Cast Off 3/4 & Slither. Turn Over is nice smooth call and is often used.

Turn Over is usually called from Parallel Waves, but is also interesting from Back-to-Back or Inverted Lines (Cast Off 3/4, Centers Half Sashay).

Grand Turn Over (from Columns) is a Cast Off 3/4 then Center 6 (Grand) Slither.

I recall that we also used to do <anything> Over, which meant do the <anything> call then Slither.

Horseshoe Turn
The CALLERLAB definition of Horseshoe Turn would SEEM to allow it from the T-bone created by "heads pass thru from a static square". Is this REALLY intentional?

The Ceder Chest definition specifically defines Horseshoe Turn (and Cross Horseshoe Turn) in terms of ENDS and CENTERS.

ENDS Cloverleaf, CENTERS Partner Tag. This disallows this case.

I've heard of callers using Horseshoe Turn from Out-Facing Lines. Centers Cloverleaf as Ends slide in & Partner Tag! Needless to say, I consider this an inappropriate usage.

Hourglass
Our A-2 DBD group had a discussion the other night about who the "centers" are in an hourglass. I didn't have a good answer for them. I believe the centers are the dancers in the diamond, however, one of my dancers thought it was the dancers in the box. Please, let me know what you think.

A Galaxy, on the other hand, consists of a Box inside a Diamond.

Initially CONCEPT

I'm trying to learn to call C3A and right know I'm confused. I was reading the definition for "Initially" and you are saying that: Initially is a meta-concept (a concept that requires another concept as an argument). The caller can not say Initially anything. The caller must give a concept after the word Initially. And in your examples you're showing a "Initially Twice Triple Star Thru". My question is, Is "Twice" a concept??

It just so happens that 'Twice' is one of those concepts that doesn't explicitly appear on a Callerlab list.

Initially is usually used with concepts such as Tandem, As Couples, Siamese, Concentric, Cross Concentric, Triple Box, Triple Wave, Stable, Once Removed, Split Phantom Waves, etc.

Here's a few more interesting examples:

From Parallel R-H Waves: Initially To A Wave Scoot & Little.
(Scoot Back to a Wave, ending in a R-H 1/4 Tag; then Little)

From a L-H Tidal Wave: Initially Grand Mix.
(Grand Centers Cross Run (Triple Trade & Spread); then each side Centers Trade)

From R-H Twin Diamonds: Initially Centers Recycle.
(Centers 1/3 Recycle (Ends fold + adjust to a center Box); all Split Counter Rotate 1/4; Roll)

From Parallel L-H Waves: Initially Checker Box Relay The Top.
(Checker Box Right Arm Turn 1/2 to end in Parallel R-H Waves; then Finish Relay the Top)

Ceder Chest Definition of Initially

Kickoff

At a C2 dance last weekend, from boy-boy girl-girl waves, the caller called Girls Kickoff. We had been taught by our caller that in this case the boys should partner tag, but neither the caller nor apparently any of the other dancers construed it this way. Your definition seems to make it clear that you would have expected the boys, as non-designated dancers, to partner tag. Is this correct? Similar question -- same formation, and the call is Girls Run. Should the boys slide nose-to-nose?

1. In my opinion, it is inappropriate to use Kick Off in this manner.

   The boys should not Partner Tag. I believe that you only do a Partner Tag if there is someone Running (Kicking) into your position.

   I plan on adding a few paragraphs to our definition of Kick Off so that it is not abused in this way.

2. No. There is no-one Running into a Boy's position so the Boys do not move.

Ceder Chest Definition of Kick Off

Left Chain Reaction

We were just dancing to A2 tapes and "left chain reaction" came up. I thought but can't find it anywhere that chain reaction is always a right pass thru, whether from left or right quarter tags, but that something was brought in last year to say that if "LEFT CHAIN REACTION" IS CALLED THEN IT'S A LEFT SHOULDER PASS, and that can be from a right hand wave too. Can you settle the argument? I know that this applies to any "left hand" call too.

If the call is "Mirror Chain Reaction", you would definitely pass left-shoulders.

On calls such as "Left Pass Thru", "Left Pass & Roll", and "Left Travel Thru", you would also pass left-shoulders.

In many cases, "Left" means to do the mirror image of the call. However...

On "Left Spin The Windmill In", the "Left" applies only to the centers. The Ends do not 1/4 In then pass two dancers "Left" shoulders.

On "Interlocked Left Scoot & Plenty", the stars are danced by passing right-shoulders (a normal Reverse The Pass).

In the first case (Left Spin The Windmill In), there are actually two directions given to the dancers: 'left' applies to the centers, and 'in' applies to the outsides. If no direction is given to the centers, they assume 'right'.

In the second case (Interlocked Left Scoot & Plenty), the word "left" is used as a helper word. It assists the dancers in using the left-hand for a scoot back, even though they should know darn well to use the left-hand! On the floor, it is often the case that dancers on are auto-pilot, or the outsides may not be paying attention to the handedness of the center wave. The word "left" is simply a helper word.

Similarly, at Advanced and below, the word "left" is often used as a helper word in order to increase dancer success (e.g., "left scoot back", "left switch the wave", etc.). So, the question becomes... is the word "left", in the phrase "left chain reaction", a helper word? If so, the pass thru is a right-shoulder pass, if not, the pass thru is a left-shoulder pass.

By the way, I generally try to avoid the issue (i.e., avoid saying things such as "left chain reaction") by using other words. For example:

1. "It's a lefty, chain reaction"; or
2. "Centers left swing thru, all chain reaction" (I use one or more left-hand calls to the centers prior to calling chain reaction).

Left Chain Reaction

This evening a caller called "Left Chain Reaction" (inspired undoubtedly by the current discussion on sd-callers "list" concerning LEFTS). He said that the current manner of dancing chain reaction from a left quarter tag is terrible flow and only certain challenge callers who don't know any better would call it. His "Left Chain Reaction" is the mirror of the regular 1/4 tag version. IS THERE A SUCH THING AS LEFT CHAIN REACTION? OR, IS LEFT CHAIN REACTION IN THE WORKS TO BE ADDED? Thank you. I'm not one of "THOSE" "challenge callers who don't know any better, but I called it for my Advanced people and also for his group while he was away for three weeks. I don't mind saying that with this little speech of his I felt insulted and felt like going home. In point of fact, I went into an ante room to dry my eyes. So, IS THERE A LEFT CHAIN REACTION??? Or, will there be?

This caller's opinion of the call having terrible flow, is just that - an opinion. In my opinion, the caller used bad judgment in inflicting his opinion upon the floor. There's most likely plenty of other topics that would better suit the dancers.

Forcing a different shoulder pass just because you don't like the definition of the call shouldn't be inflicted upon the dancers, and is a dis-service when those dancers go out to dance in the real world, to other callers. Prefixing the call with Left is often done by callers as a helper word to warn the dancers that the call will feel different (e.g., Left Scoot Chain Thru (from a L-H 1/4 Tag), to wake up the outside dancers to use the L-H).

Anyway, there is a 'Left' Chain Reaction, which would be the mirror version. It's an almost certainty that it will never be added to the list. I would only consider using it at C2 or above, and only if I wanted the outsides to do a mirror partner hinge.

As a dancer, you have the option of expressing your displeasure to the caller, and/or not dancing to him again.

Load The Boat
Will it be Okay from infacing lines to call: Everyone do centers part of load the boat. If Yes, will it then be okey to call it to PLUS-dancers?? As we have talked a lot about it here in Denmark, I am looking forward to recieving your answer.

"Working on each side, do the Centers' part of Load The Boat".

From a half-sashayed Eight Chain Thru formation, you will have the most success. I've called it from this postition several times at my Plus club with a good success rate.

Ceder Chest Definition of Load The Boat

Lockit
What formation do you expect when "centers lockit" (Or fan the top or spin the top) is called from parallel diamonds? A dogbone" or an "H"? Thanks in advance for your reply.

The reason is that from Twin Diamonds, the ends (points) are considered to be Ends of Lines, and when a shape-changing call is directed to the centers, "square breathing" causes the Ends to laterally slide toward or away from the center.

From Twin Diamonds, if the Centers do a Lockit, the Ends slide away from the center, but remain close to each other (in Tandem) as if they were Ends of Lines. This results in the "dogbone" formation.

Ceder Chest Definition of Lockit

Magic Checkmate The Column
Sorry to bother you with this question. Can you do a "Magic checkmate the column"?

You can't do a Magic Checkmate from normal columns or magic columns.

Magic Coordinate

Please don't call me nuts, but I must ask you for explanation of Magic Coordinate. Your website, SD and CSDS give the same result, but I am not happy with this result. Everything in me cries that the Very Centers should move up on the other side to end in Two-faced Lines. I have two reasons to say that. 1) All other magic calls end up as their normal opposites, we just call the formation magic. I mean for example Magic Pass & Roll Your Neighbor & Spread ends in Magic Waves = samefoot prints as normal Waves). Hence, Magic Coordinate should end in Magic Two-faced Lines. 2) From 1/4 Tag formation: Magic Release works as I expect, it means the Ends of the center Wave go diagonally to the far end. I don't see big difference between the ends of the center wave and very centers (= centers of the (phantom) center wave). Please tell me, what am I missing?

The long answer is...

• In the old days, someone would write a call, for example Coordinate/
• Then someone else would write another similar call -- for example Cross Coordinate, or Split Coordinate, or Magic Coordinate.
• We didn't have well-defined "concepts", just vague notions of terms like "Cross" or "Magic".
• Eventually, we tried grouping similar calls together to form concepts, which is the primary reason why Concentric has so many extra little rules.
• Magic was a particularly difficult concept to quantify. The traffic pattern of a Circulate was well-defined. The rule "work normal once you leave the magic circulate path" seemed to cover most of the remaining cases. Perhaps on Magic Coordinate, the last part for the very centers can be justified as "because they're leaving the magic circulate path (i.e., Hourglass Circulate), they work normal"???

Magic Lickety Split

After looking at the 1996 edition of the Ceder Chest and on your website, we can't figure out why, on a Magic Lickety Split, girl #1 winds up facing "north". If it were an ordinary Lickety Split, she would wind up in the "northwest" corner facing "south". Taking the magic circulate path (cross over when going between the center 4 and outside 4) it's clear why she winds up in the "southwest" corner, but it's not clear why she got turned around.

On Magic Split Counter Rotate 1/4, Trailers do the equivalent of a Magic Column Circulate & 1/4 In. The justification of this is that the Trailers follow the back of the person in front of them, just as they would on a normal Split Counter Rotate 1/4.

From normal Magic Columns, Magic Split Counter Rotate 1/4 ends in Parallel Two-Faced Lines.

Ceder Chest Definition of Lickety Split

Magic Track 2
I have a C3 dancer setting here asking me how to do a Magic Track II? Can it be done?

Magic Track 2:

From a Completed Double Pass Thru. Leaders do a normal Track 2 as Trailers Magic Column Circulate then follow the original diagonal opposite dancer in their box of 4.

Ends in Parallel R-H Waves.

The Trailers follow the dancer diagonally in front of them.

Equivalent to Trailers Half Sashay; all Track 2.

The call ends normal (i.e., not Magic) because everyone has left the Magic Column Circulate path.

In my opinion, this call is inappropriate to call at C1.

Matrix Triple Waves Working
I have a question about the legality of some choreography. Starting set-up: Heads Pass the Ocean, Release Nothing. From this formation, is it legal to call Triple Waves Working Forward (or Backward) Sets in Motion? Or does it have to have be called as Matrix Triple Waves Working Forward (or Backward) Sets in Motion? Thanks for your assistance.

Triple Waves Working Forward Sets In Motion:

I don't know how to overlap the two resulting 1/4 tags so that they are 50% offset.

Matrix Triple Waves Working Forward Sets In Motion:

I'd prefer this, as it would end in a 16-matrix.

From your starting position mentioned above, I get a Siamese setup (same sex together).

Mini-Busy
Can Mini-Busy be called from Parallel Waves?

Mini-Busy is often thought of as a 3-part call (From 2FL, 2/3 Mini-Busy ends in an Hourglass). The Trailers' part is well-defined: 1/2 Circulate, Very Centers Hinge, Flip The Diamond. The Leaders' part, however, isn't as well-defined. I believe the the Leaders' part is basically one motion, and that when done from Parallel Waves, the Leaders should end on the same spot, not in tandem.

I believe there is no problem on a 2/3 Mini-Busy from Parallel Waves, since although the Leaders end on the same spot, they are facing opposite directions, and hence step to a R-H Mini-Wave.

Ceder Chest Definition of Mini-Busy

Mix
Is it possible at any level to do Mix from a Diamond?

1. those doing the Run action must move into a spot occupied by another dancer;
2. those dancers occupying a destination spot (for one of the dancers doing the run action) must move to an adjacent spot which was previously occupied by a Runner.

At C1, the caller could say Squeeze The Diamond to get the desired result.

At C4, the caller could say Phantom Thar Mix to get the desired result.

Ceder Chest Definition of Mix

Motivate #1

Question about the definition for Motivate. The final move by the dancers who go from the star or from the very outsides, to the ends of lines, is described in terms of an Hourglass Circulate....but earlier, when dancers move from the ends of lines TO those positions, it is described instead as 1/2 Circulate. (The Callerlab definition, the Big 5, and the C1-C2 Ceder Chest all have this difference.) Why is that? If Hourglass Circulate (or Phantom Hourglass Circulate, or Do Your Part, Hourglass Circulate) is acceptable to describe the last motion, why not the earlier one? As it is, if the trailing ends do 1/2 Circulate from lines, they're out there on the borders of the formation, not in the center for a star -- no wonder dancers "can't see the star". Does anyone know the reason Motivate has been defined this way?

Square dancing consists of a lot of what I've termed 'fuzzy' dancing, in the sense that dancers are often required to execute calls from setups in which some of the dancers are 1/2 of a position off from where they would need to be in order to start the call. (For example, from Parallel Waves after an Extend and Outsides 1/4 Right, consider a Diamond Circulate. In this case, after the 1/4 Right, the outsides are not really on Diamond footprints since they are 1/2 of a position forward or backward from precisely standing on the Diamond footprints. But, in reality, they are 'close enough', and the dancers do the slight adjustment and do the Diamond circulate anyway). (Similarly, from Twin Diamonds after a Diamond Circulate & Roll, a caller could call Ping Pong Circulate. Again, in this case the dancers aren't precisely on the 1/4 Tag footprints prior to the Ping Pong Circulate. But again, the dancers do it anyway). The bottom line is that as long as the caller can unambiguously get the dancers to do what he/she wants, then it's a legal call.

For the definitions of calls like Motivate (and Relay The Top), we define the Outsides to do a 1/2 Circulate (while the Centers are Casting 3/4) which results in a Center Diamond. This Center Diamond is then used as a Star since those who did the 1/2 Circulate are only 1/2 of a position away from being in a 'real' Star. Some sets of definitions (at a cost of being a little wordier) say something like '1/2 Circulate to form a Center Star'. After turning the Center Star (while the Others Trade), the last part for the Star dancer who does not connect with the Line/Wave Of 6 has historically been defined as 'move up to become an End of a wave'. Since this phase is rather fuzzy (and since some of these calls are nowadays used from T-Bones or Phantom setups) we attempt to be more precise by saying 'Phantom Hourglass Circulate'.

So in answer to your first question, 'why isn't the movement described as Phantom Hourglass Circulate when the ends of lines move TO the star?'... It could be defined as a Phantom Hourglass Circulate, but defining it as a 1/2 Circulate suffices. On the other hand, when the star dancers move up to become the ends of lines, we don't have any term like '1/2 Circulate' to describe that movement, so we have to either define it as 'move up' or define it in terms of a higher-level call such as 'Phantom Hourglass Circulate'. Note that when writing definitions, we try to define everything in terms of 'the lowest common denominator'. We don't like to use terms such as Phantom Hourglass Circulate in a call definition, because then only challenge dancers have a chance of understanding the definitions.

Here are some more reasons why (on a Motivate) the End moving INTO the star is not defined as a Phantom Hourglass Circulate...

1. Consider the formation obtained from Parallel Waves after the Centers Box Counter Rotate 1/4. From this position, the caller could call 'Finish A Motivate' (meaning leave off the first Circulate). In this case, the Ends do a 1/2 Circulate as the Centers Cast Off 3/4... The In-Facing End can not replace the 1/2 Circulate with a Phantom Hourglass Circulate because this End becomes the End of the Center Line Of 6.
2. Consider the T-Bone setup obtained from Mini-Wave Columns after the Lead End does a 1/4 In. From this position, the caller could also call Motivate. After the first Circulate, there are NO TRAILING ENDS (so again, none of the ends could replace the 1/2 Circulate with a Phantom Hourglass Circulate).

By the way, in the first formation given above (Parallel Waves after the Centers Box Counter Rotate 1/4), there are several callers who call Motivate from this setup and expect the Centers to do a Box Circulate (instead of an All 8 Circulate). Most challenge callers believe calling Motivate from this position is illegal because the first part of the call is an (All 8) Circulate, and hence the the first move for the Out-Facing Center would be to Circulate straight ahead.

Ceder Chest Definition of Motivate

Motivate #2

Isn't there a motivate that starts from two-faced lines? It looks similar to your diagram for a Motivate from an unusual position in that there is a facing center star - usually when I've come up against it, the caller says only turn the center star a quarter. But when they are questioned about what would happen with a half turn (and from my experience - nothing good :-) ) you end up in the offset that you show.

Although Motivate is almost always done from Parallel Waves, it can also start from Two-Faced Lines, and the T-Bone formation shown in our definitions. In addition, some callers believe Motivate can be done from the formation obtained from Parallel Waves after the Centers Counter Rotate 1/4.

When Motivate is done from Two-Faced Lines, turning the star 1/4 or 3/4 is more convenient for the caller since the ending formation results in parallel two-faced lines. There is nothing wrong with turning the star 1/2 (it's common usage at Challenge): some dancers just finish on the same spot and step to right-hands, ending in a parallelogram formation.

Ceder Chest Definition of Motivate

Motivate from an Eight Chain Thru formation
Is it legal to start from Eight Chain Thru formation, requiring the implicit step to a wave before the first Circulate? (As a dancer, I want to circulate first, then do the rest of the call, and don't think of stepping to a wave as part of "circulate": however our caller thinks that since Motivate "normally" starts from a wave, then the extend is automatic) -- thoughts?

"Step to a Wave" and do the call generally only apply to calls that start with arm turns (e.g., Spin The Top).

Once Removed

I'm trying to teach my dancers how to dance the Once Removed concept. On "Once Removed Here Comes The Judge", the dancers step thru, do the move and then step back to an opposite-handed wave. On "Once Removed, Once Removed Single Wheel" and other similar moves, one can apply the same technique if the waves that are created are restructured in tandem. But if we take the call "Once Removed Couples Hinge" from the same tidal wave, it cannot really be danced using the same "fix". There are dozens of examples of this, and many different ways of doing many different Once Removed calls. Is there any one method that works for everything other than taking out all elements of 'Once-Removedness', doing the call and putting back all elements of 'once-removedness'?. Is taking out and putting back really dancing?

The 'step thru, do the call, step back' action is somewhat of a cheat, in the sense that it only works some of the time. In fact, if we had a Tidal Line in which each side had an Inverted Line (e.g., from Magic Columns after a Hinge), on the call "Once Removed Here Comes The Judge", if the dancers step thru then try to do the call, they are guaranteed to breakdown.

In other situations, it is impossible to take it out. For example, from R-H Columns, do a 1/2 Circulate then have the Very Ends do a U-Turn Back. Suppose the call is 'Once Removed Remake'. How do you take it out? It can't be done (easily) since the two formations share the same center of gravity.

Personally, I do not like the 'take it out and put it back' style of dancing. As a caller, I try only to call instances of concepts in which the dancers "can dance" the call. Whether or not the dancers can actually figure out how to dance the call is another matter.

I think the most important part about doing Once Removed is:

1. Determine who you are working with. Visually memorize the dancers in your Once Removed setup. This is important so that
   1. you know who you are working with (so you can work with them!); and
   2. you can do a sanity check after completing the call to make sure that the same dancers are in the resulting Once Removed ending formation.
2. Note which wall your group is closest to, so that at the end of the call, you can verify that everyone in your Once Removed group is closest to that wall. Of course, this doesn't apply when the center of gravity for the two Once Removed groups is the same.

Traffic-pattern-wise, different calls require different traffic patterns.

1. There's the 'step thru, do it, step to an opposite-handed setup' method that you mentioned above for Here Comes The Judge. I think you should show the dancers this style, but caution them that it only works when
   1. all the dancers in the Once Removed setup are facing the same direction; and when
   2. the call changes everyone's facing direction by 180 degrees.
   If the dancers blindly follow the 'step thru, do it, step to an opposited-handed setup' method, they will breakdown on many Once Removed calls (e.g., the Once Removed Here Comes The Judge from a Tidal Line consisting of Inverted Lines).
2. There's the 'take it out, do it, put it back' method, which works for calls such as (from Squared Set after Heads move into the middle) Once Removed Split Square Chain Thru. This method sometimes requires additional dancing skills to put back the Once-Removedness (e.g., from the same setup: Once Removed Split Square Chain The Top To A Wave. Take it out, do the call, Stretch it, then have the Centers of each side Slither). Many dancers call this 'Drag-and-Drop'.
3. There's the 'go to footprints for each part of the call' method, which only works for non-shapechangers. Example: from Starting DPT, Once Removed Touch 1/4 & Cross.
4. There's the 'twosome' method, in which dancers dance the call Twosome instead. Many dancers find Once Removed easier after learning Twosome, and I sometimes get requests from dancers to move Twosome to C2, and move Once Removed to C3A or C3B.
5. There's probably a few other methods, but I can't think of them right now.

My recommendations:

1. Teach your dancers to always determine who you are working with and note which wall your group is closest to. That is, memorize the dancers in your Once Removed setup, and memorize the 'heavy' wall.
2. Drill the dancers on calls using each of the above mentioned methods. Spend one session doing the 'step thru, do it, step to an opposite-handed setup' method, do another session on 'take it out, put it back', do another session on the 'go to footprints after each part' method, and finally, do a session on calls that can't be done using any of the methods taught so far (such as the Once Removed Remake mentioned above).

Ceder Chest Definition of Once Removed

Once Removed Square Thru
I've been teaching for several years at C2 that Once Removed Square Thru is done to footprints. My local dancers now tell me that that is not the way it's danced in other places. At my dances I find that some people take it out and put it back but most will work to footprints. Does this match your experience? How should Once Removed Square Thru be danced?

We originally learned Once Removed Square Thru (about 20 years ago!) as "move to footprints". It was equated to doing the call "In Your Block". The traffic pattern for Once Removed Square Thru is also described in this manner in our Ceder Chest definition. I believe that moving to footprints is the correct, smooth way to dance the Once Removed Concept, as it maintains the Once-Removed-ness of the call as much as possible. This is important because when dancers execute the concept properly they are more inclined to not break down when the call is modified in another manner. Unfortunately, many dancers tend to think that the faster you do the call, the better.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending upon your point of view), due to the fact that Once Removed is one of the hardest concepts in square dancing (next to Rewind, Progressive, and Magic Interlocked Diamonds), several dancing 'cheats' have evolved in recent years.

I recently added an entry to our FAQ database on different methods ('cheats'?) to dance Once Removed: http://www.ceder.net/faqdb/view.php?section=7&category=31#spot19

Pass & Roll as a Tagging Call

Pass and Roll the Yellow Brick Road is a call that you can find in sd. Ie. replace the first Follow your Neighbor with a Pass and Roll Your Neighbor. I cannot find it in your list nor in Mark Brautigam's 1300 call list. what is the status of this call? Hm. But ATC the Yellow Brick Road means to tag to the 1/2 Tag position and then do a FULL Brick Road. In this case you replace the first FYN. So it does not follow the rule and thus needs a separate listing like Pass and Roll the Axle. Or am I wrong?

Since Pass & Roll is sometimes used as a Tagging call, "Pass & Roll The Yellow Brick {anything}" doesn't require a separate listing.

The 1/2 Tag position for Pass & Roll is:

Pass Thru; Centers Turn Thru as Ends U-Turn Back; Touch

(i.e., Touch + Scoot Back)

Pass & Roll Chain Thru:

Touch; Scoot Back; Scoot Chain Thru.

Pass The Ocean & Roll

In the past I have had a lot of discussions about pass the ocean and roll. First it was said, this is not possible (because the last call is "step to a weave) without turning!). Then I read somewhere (but i don't know where (perhaps by callerlab)) that it's possible, because of the dancing movement, the dancers dance around the center of there formation an don't really do the step forward). I looked up in the definitions of callerlab, and I can't find it anymore, even no note that it was ok and isn't anymore. Can you help me out? Do you know something about these definition changes, if any?

1. Pass Thru;
2. 1/4 In;
3. Step to a Right-Hand Wave.

Whether or not you can Roll, of course, depends upon the definition. If Pass The Ocean were defined as 1) Step to a Wave; then 2) Centers Arm Turn 1/4 as the Ends move up, then everyone could Roll. It's somewhat arbitrary how Pass The Ocean was defined.

Some callers get their dancers to do the 'Roll' action by using other words. For example, "Pass The Ocean, and Roll as if you could", or "Pass The Ocean, Roll Anyway".

You could also get a similar action (from Facing Couples) by calling "Fan The Top & Roll".

Phantom Concept
We were having a discussion on Phantoms last night and could not come up with a reason that we could say yes or no. Maybe you can help. From a line of 4 facing out can Phantom Square Thru 3 be called and expect all the dancers to work with their own Phantoms and expect them to have facing lines at the end?

Do the given call working with imaginary dancers (i.e., Phantoms). Assume that the Phantoms are in whatever position, have whatever facing direction, and are of whatever sex is necessary in order to execute the given call. The call is then danced with both the dancers and the Phantoms participating. Keep track of the Phantoms that you are working with and reserve space for them at the completion of the call.

As such, your instance certainly follows the general idea of Phantom.

However, since C1 dancers usually only do Phantoms from the formation obtained from parallel lines after some of the dancers hinge, dancers may not immediately recognize where the phantoms are. Extra helper words may assist here.

By the way, I call this instance at C1 occasionally, and preface it with the following helper words: "With the Phantoms You're Facing...". I also do things from Out-Facing Lines such as "With the Phantoms You're Facing: Right & Left Thru; (then) With the Same Phantoms: Pass The Ocean". As long as you start with normal couples, the success rate is close to 100%.

Plenty #1
Infrequently, a caller will call "plenty" and those ends moving off will end up facing each other. What is the formation where this occurs? Is it a starting formation or is it something the caller does to modify the formation in performing the call.

E.g., from a Squared Set:

Heads Step To A Wave; all Plenty.

Ceder Chest Definition of Plenty

Plenty #2
Our caller called Plenty from Diamonds. Are the Outsides supposed to 1/4 Right before the Counter Rotate or not?

Commments:

1. the caller must say "Outsides go as you are", or "Forward Plenty" if the outsides are to omit the 1/4 Right.
2. the caller may give a direction (In, Out, Right, Left, Forward) to the Outsides, in which case the outsides 1/4 toward the given direction instead of toward the Right.
3. Scoot & Plenty -- from a L-H 1/4 Tag the outsides go Left (i.e., toward the handhold). Hence, from a L-H 1/4 Tag, "Scoot & Plenty" (one call) is different than "Scoot Back & Plenty" (two calls).
4. I believe that Plenty has 3 parts:
   1. Centers Step & Fold as Outsides 1/4 Right & Counter Rotate 1/4.
   2. Split Circulate Twice.
   3. Centers 1/2 Zoom as Outsides Counter Rotate 1/4 & Roll.

Ceder Chest Definition of Plenty

Press In

Since I am a tape leader I need to know if the following is legal: Some caller called "centers press in" from a double pass through formation. I kind of knew that he wanted a cross trail thru in he center, but .................. Unless something has changed that I am not aware of, I am under the impression that you have to be an end to be able to press in. He could have called press out or press ahead or back, but IN?

Press In|Out can be done by any dancer, anywhere, as long as he/she is not directly facing toward or away from the flagpole center of the set.

Press In / Out
Can you give me an example of Press In / Press Out ? I understand the Left, Right and Ahead parts of this call but am just not sure about the In / Out. Thanks for your help.

In and Out are relative to the center of the set.

For example, on a Press In, each dancer finds the center of the set relative to themselves, then moves one dancer position forward and toward that direction. From an Eight Chain Thru position, Press In would be equivalent to Cross Trail Thru.

From Out-Facing Lines, you could have the Ends Press In, to end in a Completed DPT.

Here's two sequences:

C1-1450
Heads Cross & Turn,
Split Circulate,
Centers Pass The Ocean,
Ends Single Circle To A Wave,
Each Side Boys Trade,
Grand Swing Thru,
Recycle,
Triple Box Square Thru 3,
Ends Press In (check a Butterfly),
IY Butterfly: Vertical Tag Back To A Wave,
Boys Press Ahead,
All Finish A Ferris Wheel,
Swing & Circle 1/4,
Centers Turn Thru,
L.A.

C2-1474
Heads Star Thru & Spread,
All Finish A Percolate,
Triple Box Chase Right,
Centers Press Ahead,
IY Triple Box: Counter Rotate 1/4,
Outside 6 Press In,
Work Siamese: Scoot & Weave,
6 By 2 Acey Deucey,
1/2 Reverse Crazy Left 1/2 Tag,
Trade Circulate & Lockit,
Grand Swing Thru,
Relay The Shadow, Girls Criss Cross It,
Cross Trade & Wheel,
Promenade Home

Ceder Chest Definition of Press

Quarter The Deucey
Would you consider this call legit: Lines facing out - Initially Once Removed, quarter the deucey In other words, is the first part of "quarter the deucey" a hinge?

I believe 1/4 (and 3/4) the Deucey start with arm turns. Hence, it's legal to call these calls from an eight chain thru,

in my opinion, you can't have the call start with either an arm turn or a hinge, depending upon starting formation.

Better, to say Initially use 1/2 Tag for 1/4 The Deucey.

Random Concept
Other from the 'Twice', 'Tandem', 'Couples', which you used in the teach session, what other 'Randoms' do you use regularly and are there others you use when you are being difficult!?

Other often-used concepts are

As Couples, Once Removed, Stable, Twice, and Twosome.

Occasionally, an identifier such as 'Centers' is used as the concept. For example, from R-H Twin Diamonds: Random Centers Recycle (Centers 1/3 Recycle; all Split Counter Rotate 1/4; Centers Roll). This is hard!

To successfully execute 'Random' calls, you need to learn the parts to the commonly used calls.

For example, 'Swing & Mix' and '1/4 Mix' have 3 parts, not 2.

Commonly used 4-part calls include 'Change The Wave', 'Change The Centers', and 'Reset'.

It also helps to verbalize 'Tandem', 'normal', 'Tandem', etc. while you're doing the call.

Take your time, and don't rush it.

If there's only two parts to the call, Random is the same as Initially.

The Random concept has been renamed to the Oddly concept.

Reflected
I have a question on the REFLECTED Concept. From Parallel Waves, the call is REFLECTED LOOP AND TAG 0. The end result is a Starting Double Pass Thru formation from which the next call is TOUCH BY 1/4 x 1/4. The end result is Parallel Two-Faced Lines. I'm using Ackerman's SD program. I can't see where the SPLIT COUNTER ROTATE was involved.

A 'Reflected Loop & 0 Tag' is the same as a 'Loop & 0 Tag'. A 'Reflected Loop & 1/4 Tag' is the same as a 'Loop & 1/4 Tag'. On both these calls, the half tag position is never reached, so there is no Counter Rotate. Calling a 'Reflected Loop & 0 (or 1/4) Tag' is like calling a 'Stable Walk & Dodge' -- it's legal, but the addition of the concept is superfluous.

From Parallel Waves, a 'Reflected Loop & 0 Tag' ends in a Tandem Single Eight Chain Thru formation.

Ceder Chest Definition of Reflected

Regroup

I recently had a dancer ( this past weekend ) come up to me and tell me that in Colorado that Regroup is being taught for the ends to do a concentric zing ala easy does it. This removed flow problems for the infacing ends if the caller wished to use the call that way. Have you heard anything about this ? It seems like it could be good change to the definition. If so I assume the callerlab definitions committee would have to consider it. What is your feeling on this?

Whenever we ask for suggested changes to the C1 list, a few people suggest that we drop Regroup. I agree that the call should be dropped, as I think we could easily replace it with a better call. Since this appears unlikely to pass in the near future, perhaps a definition change would be better. Obviously, a Concentric Zing is a better traffic pattern, and would allow Regroup to be smoothly done from formations in which the Ends are in Tandem or are Facing.

Anyway, after much discussion at the Callerlab meeting, it was decided not to do this change. I don't recall exactly what the reasons were, but I'll try to make an educated guess...

1. Regroup has been on the C1 list since it was first created, and hence, Regroup is one of those calls that "define" C1. We shouldn't change it. (BS if you ask me).
2. Regroup is a 2-part call. If the Ends did a Concentric Zing, then that'd only be one part. (Too bad, no more Initially Twice Regroups!)
3. (I think the following reason is actually why the definition change was shot down.) Defining the End's part of Regroup as a Concentric Zing allows the call to be done from additional formations such as Columns (since Concentric Zing is legal from Columns). This would give an entirely new feel to the call, and many were opposed to such an action. (personally, I feel it would make the call more useful).

By the way, the sister call Trip The Set is also almost always suggested to be dropped from C3A whenever I request suggestions for changes to C3A.

Ceder Chest Definition of Regroup

Relocate
Can Relocate be done from parallel waves or do there have to be very centers? Isn't the box in a wave formation considered the very center of the formation???

Ceder Chest Definition of Relocate

Remake
According to the rumours Remake has changed from a right-hand call if the setup is mentioned (e.g. left wave diamond calling "remake the Diamond" should now start with left) Can you confirm this? I cannot find it in any message/definition from Callerlab!

If the call is to be done in a group of more than 4 dancers, the call is Grand Remake.

If starting with the L-H, the call is Left Remake.

The exception is Remake The Thar which starts with Any Hand.

Reverse Fan the Top from facing couples
The reverse concept I think explains the movement more clearly than does "Left Fan the Top". To Fan the Top from facing couple the Right Hand Dancer uses their inside or Left Hand. So to do a Reverse Fan the Top the Left Hand Dancer must use their inside or Right Hand.

The term LEFT is most appropriate for Plus thru C3A. That is how I use it, and most other callers that I know. Dancers first step to a LEFT-hand wave...then do the call. It's analogous to LEFT Spin The Top, and other calls.

At C3B and beyond, we have a better term, namely MIRROR, which means to do the Mirror Image of the call.

Reverse Fan The Top is a bad name because Reverse means many things... Mirror Image...Reverse Order...Swap the Leader's and Trailer's parts... Reverse is also used in callnames with neither of the above interpretations (e.g., Reverse The Diamond).

Historically, Reverse has been used for calls that swap Beaus and Belles (e.g., Reverse Flutter Wheel) whereas Left has been used for calls that swap Right and Left (e.g., from facing couples, Left Spin The Top). Fan The Top falls into the second category (Left Touch, then...)

At C3B, there is a call Reverse The Top... which is a Fan The Top followed by an Arm Turn 1/2.

I strongly suggest you use the term LEFT, which is the accepted way of calling this.

Right | Left Roll to a Wave
When is Right (Left) Roll to a Wave legal (but not very "exciting') for dancers facing, i.e. just (left or right) touch?

I'd only call it from an asymmetric formation or at challenge (e.g., from Magic Columns perhaps).

Right | Left Wing Concept

I have a question about this concept. All of your examples suggest that the designated "Wing" applies to everyone. Yet many of the examples I have seen in practice require it to apply only to certain people. Examples: right wing triangle circulate (wing only applies to base, presumably wave based) right wing hourglass circulate (wing only applies to very centers) right wing diamond circulate (wing only applies to centers of each diamond) right wing chain reaction (from a normal 1/4 tag, wanting the wing to only apply to the wave). Are these calls considered legal? so, suppose I have the dancers in point to point diamonds and I call "right wing exchange the diamonds"? Does the "wing" apply only to the centers of each side or to all center 6 (including the very centers)?

I disagree with all 4 of the above examples, particularly the Chain Reaction.

For the Diamonds, Hourglasses, and Triangles, you'll also notice that I only call Right-Wing calls when the points have their right-shoulders towards the center of their formation.

As for the Chain Reaction, it should be called as 'Centers work Right-Wing ALL Chain Reaction'. If it was just Right-Wing Chain Reaction, I'd expect both the outsides to be Beaus. In this case, I'd probably have one girl and one boy as outsides so I could say something like 'But Boys Star 1/2, Girls Star 1/4'.

As for the "right wing exchange the diamonds", if you said "Right-Wing DIAMONDS Exchange The Diamond", I'd certainly expect the "wing" to apply to each side.

If you just said "Right-Wing Exchange The Diamond", I would be strongly tempted to have the "Wing" apply to the very centers. And now that I think about it, I think I'd complain if it weren't, especially if the caller didn't clarify what he/she wanted.

Ripple
From a tidal wave, what if you wanted the 2nd person from the end of the tidal wave to ripple all the way? Would you need to say grand ripple or would you expect her to stop after 2 ripples? Is there a difference between Grand Ripple and Ripple from a grand wave?

I would say "Each side <desginated person> Ripple The Wave" if I wanted it done on each side.

Technically, Ripple is a 4-dancer call unless the word 'Grand' is used, hence if the call was "<desginated person> Ripple The Wave" then that person stays within the 4-dancer formation and does a Ripple 2.

Of course, from a Caller's standpoint, you should strive to be unambigous whenever possible. Adding words such as "Each Side" or "Grand" go a long way in this respect. It also helps if you indicate the number and direction for the first arm turn (e.g., Grand Right Ripple 4).

Ceder Chest Definition of Ripple

Roll

Can everyone ROLL after completing the call OUT ROLL CIRCULATE ONCE AND A HALF, including the out facing end who did the last half circulate? Can the end facing out ROLL after completing his part (i.e. CIRCULATE to the other end of the line) of an ACEY DUECEY AND ROLL? Can the ends of a line ROLL after they TRADE? Is it correct to say that one can ROLL if the final part of any call results in a change of direction, including 45,90,180,270 and 360 degrees?

1. Yes;
2. Yes;
3. Yes;
4. Yes, but... you have to be careful that you know what the last part of the call is! For example, Pass The Ocean. If you dance it as "girls left-arm hook and cast 1/4 as boys move up around the outside", then you would think everyone could Roll. However, the call is not defined that way. It's a Pass Thru + 1/4 In (to Face) + Step to a R-H Wave. The last part, Step to a R-H Wave, has no turning motion, therefore nobody can Roll.

   Be aware of one other thing. You can Roll if *your* last part had turning motion, even if it isn't the last part of the call. For example, Swing Thru. From a R-H Wave, all Right Arm Turn 1/2. At this point, the ends are done, even though the call is only halfway done. Then the Centers Left Arm Turn 1/2. Everybody can Roll (the Ends to the right, the Centers to the left) even though the Ends did not do the last part of the call.

Roll Promenade
I find it difficult to get information about the exact definition of "Roll Promenade". Do you think that the following Corner Progression, which I would like to use with a beginners class in a Singing Call, is ok: Heads Square Thru Dosado Swing Thru Boys Run Bend the Line Right and Left Thru Two Ladies Chain Roll Promenade ? I would be very grateful for an answer.

In my opinion, you don't need the word 'Roll'. A simple 'Promenade' will do. Of course, timing-wise, 'Promenade' needs to be called immediately after 'Ladies Chain', before dancers complete the 'Ladies Chain' so that they can blend into a smooth Promenade.

Rollaway
I don't know how to roll away, much less 1/2 roll away. Help.

Rollaway is the same as

"Rollaway with a Half Sashay" or "Ladies Rollaway".

From a couple.

Exchange places by having the Beau (right-side dancer) sidestep behind the Belle (left-side dancer) as the Belle does a 360 degree turn to the left to end in the Beau's original starting position.

Ends in a couple.

To do 1/2 of a Rollaway, the Beau sidesteps 1/2 of a position while slightly moving backward, as the Belle does a 180 degree turn to the left while moving 1/2 of a position toward the Beau. Ends in facing dancers. "1/2 of a Rollaway" is similar to "Belles Fold".

Scamper
What is the definition for Centers part of Scamper? Specically, can you call Scamper with Centers Facing (i.e., step to a Wave; Hinge and Box Circulate)?

Scamper

From 3/4 Tag or other applicable formation.

Centers Hinge & Box Circulate as Ends Divide & Touch 1/4.

Usually ends in Columns.

In my opinion, the Centers' part of Scamper is
a Hinge, not an Arm Turn 1/4 or Touch 1/4.

From a Trade By formation, you could call:
Centers Initially Twice: all Scamper.

Scoot & Weave
Is the 'Weave' of Scoot and Weave a hands motion?

Technically, I believe that the first part of weave is a Pass Thru (or Left Pass Thru) type of movement, with a slight turn toward the shoulder being passed. Then, those coming into the center Pass the other shoulder, while turning 1/4 in that direction. Dance-wise, those coming into the middle almost always hook hands to Arm Turn 1/4 as in Pass The Ocean from Facing Couples.

The use of hands, of course, makes it easier for the dancers to execute the call, in fact most dancers use hands for both parts of the call. The standard cheat definition for Weave is an Any Hand 1/4 Thru.

When I first learned Weave (and Scoot & Weave), it was explained to me that it was a no-hands movement just like Weave The Ring.

Lee Kopman wrote Scoot & Weave, Weave, and Turn & Weave in 1974.

Ceder Chest Definition of Scoot & Weave

Scoot Back

Last night I called "Scoot Back, once and a half." After the tip was over, two of my dancers came up to me and stated that I had called that particular figure incorrectly. I stated that "Scoot Back, once and a half" called from a standard box formation would leave the dancers in a two-faced line. These particular dancers insisted that the end result would be a diamond. I have always called "Scoot Back, once and a half" with the end result a two-faced line.

See our definition of Follow Thru, which is precisely a 1/2 Scoot Back.

If the dancers confront you again, ask them the following question: "What do the Trailers do on Scoot Back?" Get them to agree that the Trailers do an Extend, Arm Turn 1/2, and Extend. So what is half of that? Extend & Arm Turn 1/4.

Sets In Motion
On an old tape - from left hand galaxy - you had the center 4 One half counter rotate one quarter. How do you do a sets in motion from here? It looks like we have two face lines perpendicular to each other [distorted maybe.]

I.e., Outsides (those in the Diamond) do an (Outside Diamond) Circulate 1 & 1/2 as Centers Hinge & Very Centers Hinge; The 6 who line up, face toward the Center; dancers within the Center Column of 6 start a 'Grand' Pass Thru until the original Center 4 have cleared the Center and any Trailing dancers have a compact R-H setup; original Center 4 have the first dancer Left Peel Off as second dancer Right Peel Off and adjust as necessary to end as a Couple (Zag-Zig & Explode).

The ending formation is a left-hand 1/4 Tag, which is 45 degrees from normal squared formations.

Ceder Chest Definition of Sets In Motion

Sets In Motion (from Facing Lines)
I heard a caller calling SETS IN MOTION from a LINE OF FOUR FACING IN. And also from INVERTED LINES. I believe that is not legal. Any comments??

Hence, Sets In Motion can not be done in any Centers consist of In-Facing Couples.

Shakedown
The definition of Shakedown is: Beaus Run & Roll as Belles 1/4 Out & Box Circulate. Wouldn't it be better to define it as 1/4 Right; Box Counter Rotate; and Roll?

If you *must* teach an alternative definition of Shakedown, please warn your students to the fact that it IS an alternative definition. It's usually better to teach the correct definition, as incorrectly taught definitions have a way of sneaking up on you and causing trouble. You might be doing a disservice to your dancers by teaching alternative definitions.

Another thing to consider with this particular alternative definition is that from the dancer's standpoint it is actually more complicated than the `offical' definition. The dancers have to remember three distinct parts in order to do the call. When learning Shakedown this way, the dancers will in all likelihood initially dance it very choppily.

A perhaps slightly better alternative definition for Shakedown might be something like: Move one position clockwise (right) in your box while turning 270 degrees to the right. At least this definition can't be fractionalized into those hideous thirds.

This topic is a pet-peeve, of mine, and I've written an article entitled The Shakedown Rebuttal.

Ceder Chest Definition of Shakedown

Sidetrack
Would a split split sidetrack be the same as a single split sidetrack?

I'd prefer the terminology 'Split Split' over 'Single Split'.

The first 'Split' chops the 8-dancer formation into two pieces;
the second 'Split' chops each 4-dancer formation into two peices;
then each group of two does the Sidetrack (Zig-Zag; Arm Turn 1/4; Roll).

Ceder Chest Definition of Sidetrack

Single CONCEPT

To what extent is Single Concept on the C3B program these days? I am aware of the restricted list that's supposed to be used at C3A (plus the fact that Single Bounce is on C2) but it's not clear to me whether it's kosher at C3B to call things which are not on the resticted C3A Single Concept list. You give a list of calls that might be used with Single Concept at C3 but you go on to say that the generalised Single Concept was voted off. Your esteemed viewpoint would be highly appreciated!

C2:

Single Bounce

C3A:

Single Checkmate

Single Ferris Wheel

Single Polly Wally

Single Rotary Spin

Single Turn To A Line

C3B:

Single Sidetrack

Single Strut

C4:

everything else

Our definition of Single, http://www.ceder.net/def/single.php lists the year (1996) and what remains at C3A.

Single File Revolve To A Wave
What about Single File Revolve To A Wave? What if I am facing someone and my opposite is back to back with me facing someone? Are we both bows and do a facing recyle? V ^ V ^

Centers end as Centers, and Ends end as Ends of a R-H Wave.

More information on 'Single File' can be found at http://www.ceder.net/def/singlefilec3.php

Slip, Slide, Swing, Slither
Is 'Slide' a legal call from facing dancers? If so how does it work.

Swing, the most likely one to be misused, means Ends and adjacent Centers Arm Turn 1/2, which doesn't make sense from facing dancers.

Slide means Ends and adjacent Centers exchange positions by sliding nose-to-nose.

Occasionally these calls are used from couple positions where the caller expects the dancers to Partner Trade instead of Swing or Slip, and to Half Sashay Trade instead of Slide or Slither. I don't like this usage unless the call is preceded by extra words such as 'Do Your Part' or 'Two-Faced'.

Spin Chain & Exchange the Gears & Roll

Was doing some Plus DBD writing and noticed that your program has the finishing formation after Spin chain exchange the gears and roll to be an 8 chain thru. Is that correct? As I read the definition from Callerlab, the trailing dancer after his roll would be facing out and not in. An I reading the wrong definition or making a bad interpretation? After the "momentary column of four dancers, the lead three face right and the leader runs, the trailing dancer faces left...etc" That would seem to me that the dancer number two in the column finished the call with no turning motion and the number four dancer in that column has a left turning motion. So, I figure from right hand waves starting position, the ending position after spin chain exchange and roll.....might be a mixed formation with two dancers in a T bone and another two in a tandem. Where have I gone wrong?

The problem is, that definition-wise, the lower the level of the call, the harder it is to write a technically precise definition. This is especially true for calls can't be described in terms of lower level calls.

In terms of Challege calls, Spin Chain & Exchange the Gears can easily be described. For example, using the calls Exchange the Diamond and Interlocked Flip the Diamond, or perhaps even Walk Out to a Wave.

In my opinion, the "gestalt" of a call overrides it's actual written definition.

My gestalt of "Spin Chain & Exchange the Gears" is:

1. Do the first three parts of Spin Chain the Gears
   1. Arm Turn 1/2;
   2. Centers Cast Off 3/4 as Ends U-Turn Back;
   3. Very Centers Trade; (and form two Stars)
2. Star 3/4;
3. Start an Exchange the Stars, but end in a Wave (sort of like Walk Out to a Wave).

When teaching this movement to Plus dancers, (assuming starting from R-H Waves with the Girls in the Center), and after turning the Stars, I tell the dancers to follow the Center Girl and walk around the other star, and then have the Girls RIGHT-FACED U-Turn Back, to join R-H with the Boy behind them to end in a R-H Wave.

You certainly can't tell Plus dancers to do a 3/4 Exchange the Diamond, then Interlocked Flip the Diamond!

My opinion is that the Callerlab definition inadequately describes the movement, and needs some revision work.

Should you feel otherwise, and believe CSDS is incorrect, you can edit the Snapshot record for Spin Chain & Exchange the Gears and reset the Roll attributes for some of the dancers.

Perhaps the best thing is to not call a Roll after Spin Chain & Exchange the Gears.

Ceder Chest Definition of Spin Chain & Exchange The Gears

Spin The Web
I have been dancin' since 1960... Years ago we used to do a figure called "SPIN THE WEB". It was very fun to do I have been looking for the cues on how to do it.

From a Starting Double Pass Thru or 1/4 Tag formation.

1. Centers Arm Turn 1/2;
2. Very Centers Arm Turn 3/4;
3. Very Centers and the Outside dancers form (2) 3-dancer stars and turn them 1 & 1/3 (4 spots);
4. New Very Centers Cast Off 3/4 as the other dancers in the star Face In and adjust as necessary to become a Couple.

Ends in a 1/4 Tag.

About 10 years ago, this call was occasionally used at C4. Today, it is no longer used. However, two similar calls, Trim The Web and Change The Web are still used.

Split Counter Rotate
I was chatting with another caller about the call Split Counter Rotate. He told me that from a tidal-two-faced line, it's a lockit. I agree. Then, he proceeded to tell me that from a parallel two-faced line, it was also lockit. I disagreed with him with exuberance. He told me that he is using your choreo program, and that's what the dancers do when he calls this. Can you shed any light on this?

The CSDS program incorrectly executed the call from this position. This bug has now been fixed.

Just because a computer program happens to do something doesn't make it legal.

Ceder Chest Definition of Split Counter Rotate

Spread
Is it legal to call ferris wheel, centers veer left, and as a couple spread?

Whether it follows the Callerlab definition of Spread, I don't know. I haven't yet finished my definition of Spread, but here it is: http://www.ceder.net/def/spread.php

You'll notice that the 'From a diamond' example is the same as your 'as couples spread'.

Square Around
What is a Square Around?

From an Eight Chain Thru:

Centers do your part:

Square Thru 2; Ends Bend; Square Thru 3.

Ends do your part:

Right Pull By; (Concentric) Left Square Thru 2; Left Square Thru 2.

Ends in Back-to-Back Lines.

Everyone does a total of 5 hands.

When used with "parts" concepts such as Initially or Finally, each Pull By + the following 1/4 In or Ends Bend counts as one part.

Clark Baker likes to think of Square Around as a circular kind-of Square Out.

Square Chain The Top
Does square chain the top have a well-defined number of parts? If so what are they? I am wondering whether from a starting DPT it is legal to call Random Centers Square Chain The Top (To A Wave)

If I were dancing, and someone used parts, I would parse the call as follows:

Square Chain the Top

1. Right Pull By and 1/4 In;
2. Left Swing Thru;
3. Left Turn Thru.

In my opinion, calling "Random Centers Square Chain The Top" from a Starting DPT is not legal. I have a strong preference for the first part of the call being a "Pull By and 1/4 In".

My reasoning...

Square Thru has 4 parts:

1. Right Pull By and 1/4 In;
2. Left Pull By and 1/4 In;
3. Right Pull By and 1/4 In;
4. Left Pull By.

Split Dixie Style has 2 parts:

1. Right Pull By and 1/4 In;
2. Left Touch 1/4.

Ceder Chest Definition of Square Chain The Top

Stable Concept

We were dancing this week-end as well as in California last week and came across a difference of opinion with the stable concept. The issue involved whether right and left should be considered once stable is called. Examples are Initially Stable Swing Thru from a right hand column... one caller thought it valid and another said that a Swing Thru could never be called in a column. Also, Initially Stable Swing Thru from a right hand wave... does stable make it ends and centers rather than right and left hands?

Initially requires you to re-evaluate after the first part of the call. Hence, from R-H Columns, an Initially Stable Swing Thru is a Stable Right-Arm Turn 1/2 (back-to-back half-sashay) to end in L-H Columns, followed by a Left-Arm Turn 1/2, also to end in L-H Columns.

Parts-related concepts such as Initially (also Finally, Oddly, Evenly, etc.) require a re-evaluation after each part.

Initially Stable Swing Thru can be done from just a R-H Mini-Wave. It would be a Stable Right Arm Turn 1/2 (exchange places by sliding back-to-back); then a Stable Left Arm Turn 1/2 (again, exchange places by sliding back-to-back). A terrible traffic pattern, that, if used at all, should only be used as a gimmick.

Step & Slide
Step & slide: starting from infacing lines - final formation I think is double pass thru formation, not quarter tag!?

Ceder Chest Definition of Step & Slide

Straight CONCEPT
We were workshopping the October '99 Berkshires, and we have a question. From facing lines with the boys on the end, you called "Straight Shuffle and Wheel". What's your thinking on how to execute this call?

My 'version' of Straight is:

In-Facing Ends who do a Cross Fold action replace it with a Crossover Circulate action.

I have used straight with:

• Ah So
• Central Interlocked Little
• Central Interlocked Rally
• Connect The Diamond
• Cross Pair The Line
• Cross Sashay
• Curl Apart
• Curl Thru
• Cycle & Wheel
• Diamond Recycle
• Ends Cross Fold
• Ends Cross Swivel
• Recycle
• Shuffle & Wheel
• Wheel & Deal

I supposed I could also use it with Rewind "Z" Axle  :-)

Stretch Horseshoe Turn
One of our dancers told us another caller had called Stretch Horseshoe Turn and argued that such usage was OK and that the centers had to back up to complete the call - and further that they didn't do the partner tag after backing up. He indicated that it was called from a completed DPT formation. I question this usage - have you ever heard it called?

A "Stretch" call must have two groups of four doing the call, then two dancers from each group of four "stretch" past the line dividing the two groups to end on the other side.

Horseshoe Turn requires 4 Outsides and 2 or more Centers -- Horseshoe Turn is generally an 8-dancer call. An 8-dancer call can not be "Stretch"-ed.

Ceder Chest Definition of Stretch

Comments on Stretch Turn & Deal at http://www.ceder.net/faqdb/view.php?section=7&category=31#rec425

Stretch Turn & Deal

I was at an "A" dance last night and the caller called a Stretch Turn and Deal from right-hand two-faced lines. The couple facing out did a Turn & Deal, the Couple facing in extented pass the other couple and did a turn and deal. We ended in a starting DPT formation. Then he called it from LEFT-hand two-faced lines. Our square did the same as from right-handed 2FL's and ended in a starting DPT formation. Another square did the Turn and Deal first then the original outfacers pass thru, ending in a completed DPT formation. Myy question to you is "From a Left-hand two-faced lines how is it done? And if it is differant than from a right-handed 2FL, why and what is the rule?

So, from Parallel R-H 2FLs, on a Stretch Turn & Deal, each side does the Turn & Deal (to end in an Eight Chain Thru) BUT, those ending in the Center must end in the far Center (from the Eight Chain Thru formation they could 'backup' past each other a la Un-Pass Thru). Since the aforementioned traffic pattern of backing up past each other is horrendous, the 'Stretch' concept says that those doing the 'stretch' should do so whenever it is most convenient while executing the call. So ,from Parallel R-H 2FLs for a Stretch Turn & Deal, the Trailers do an 'As Couples Extend' before doing the Turn & Deal.

From Parallel L-H 2FLs, Turn & Deal ends in a Trade By formation because dancers pass right-shoulders with each other. In this case, on a Stretch Turn & Deal, those doing the 'stretch' do so at the end of the call by doing a Pass Thru to end in the far Center.

In practice, Stretch Turn & Deal is rarely done from Parallel L-H 2FL.

Stretch Turn & Deal can also be done from a 1x8. For example, from a L-H Tidal Wave a Stretch Turn & Deal amounts to (each side) Turn & Deal then the resulting Centers Slither to end in the far Center.

Our definition of the Stretch concept: http://www.ceder.net/def/stretch.php

Substitute

I'm looking for Substitute at the C1 list. About 10 months ago Callerlab added this call to the C1 list, but it's not on your list. The Callerlab definitions says: (a) From two couples one directly behind the other and both facing the same direction: The couple in front will make an arch and backup as the couple behind ducks thru the arch to exchange places. (b) From Trade Bv formation: The center couple make an arch and back over the outside couple to end in Eight Chain Thru. What about right-/or lefthanded columns? Legal or illegal? Who will make the arch?

Substitute [C1] (added to C1 in 2004): From Generalized Columns. Centers raise joined hands to make an arch and (moving toward the nearest Outsides) move forward or backward as the Outsides move into the Center. The traffic pattern has the Centers moving around the Outsides. Substitute exchanges the Centers with the Outsides. Nobody changes their facing direction during this call, and, in practice, dancers rarely make the arch. From Tandem Couples, Lead Couple arch & back up as Trailing Couple Steps Ahead (Circulate).

Hence Substitute is legal from any Columns. Centers make the arch.

Swing The Fractions
We had a discussion about Reverse 4/5 Swing The Fractions the other night at our C1 tape group. Does it start with Left swing, or Right hinge

In Challenge dancing, a phrase such as

"Concept1 Concept2 Concept3 Call"

is equivalent to

Concept1 (Concept2 (Concept3 (Call)))

That is, each left-most 'concept' is applied to the entirety of everything that follows it.

For example,

Reverse 4/5 Swing The Fractions

is equivalent to

Reverse Order (4/5 (Swing The Fractions))

which is

Reverse Order (4/5 (1/4 Right, 1/2 Left, 3/4 Right, 1/2 Left, 1/4 Right))

which is

Reverse Order (1/4 Right, 1/2 Left, 3/4 Right, 1/2 Left)

which is

1/2 Left, 3/4 Right, 1/2 Left, 1/4 Right.

We also have a discussion on how to apply nested concepts on our definition for 'As Couples', located at http://www.ceder.net/def/ascouples.php

Ceder Chest Definition of Swing The Fractions

Switch To A Magic Diamond
From parallel waves is it alright to call Switch to a Magic Diamond? If so what is the ending result? Would the original center dancers end on the same side as their original wave and would the original end dancers end as the centers of the diamond on the other side of the square?

Switch To A Magic Diamond:

Centers (normal) Run as Ends do your part Magic Diamond Circulate.

On Switch To A Magic Diamond, the Centers work normal; on Magic Wave Switch To A Diamond, the Centers work Magic Wave (danced as if In Tandem). In both cases, the Ends' part is the same: they end in the far center position.

Technically, Switch To A Magic Diamond is not explicitly on the C3B list, since Switch To A formation is not there. Hence, if you call Switch To A Magic Diamond, you will probably get some dancers who will do a Magic Wave Switch To A Diamond instead.

Tally-Ho - Parts?
How many parts does Tally-Ho have and what are they?

1. The first part is 1/2 Circulate;
2. The last part is Centers Cast Off 3/4 as the Others do your part of an Hourglass Circulate (almost always to move up to form Parallel Lines).

As for other parts...it's a grey area. I'd venture to say that there's 3-parts. Others may disagree. The inside part (2 of 3) is Outsides Trade as Centers Hinge and 1/2 Circulate. Which, of course is 2 parts for the Centers.

So, if someone were to fractionalize Tally-Ho, I'd expect 3 parts:

1. 1/2 Circulate;
2. Outsides Trade as Centers Hinge and 1/2 Box Circulate;
3. Center Line Cast Off 3/4 as Others do your part Hourglass Circulate.

It's okay in my opinion to have one part of the call to have multiple parts (i.e., 1/2 Circulate and Hinge considered as one part of the call).

For instance, take Percolate:

1. Circulate;
2. 1/2 Circulate;
3. Outsides Any Hand Turn Thru as Centers Hinge and Cross.

Tea Cup Chain
I first learned the teacup chain as a little girl back in 1969. Do you know if it was ever done without hands and without the men doing anything?

Sat. night, the caller called...

   Side Ladies Chain 3/4 (Head Boy turn 'em);
   Girls (put your arms around each other and) act as a Couple:
   Head Ladies Center for a Teacup Chain.

There's

1. All Four Ladies Center for a Teacup Chain (all do the "head ladies part");
2. Everybody Rollaway, Head Boy Center (and Side Boy Right) for a Teacup Chain;
3. For the mirror image of the call, it is a Bearmug Chain (Head Boy center with L-H...);
4. There's Teacup Like A Daisy... where the girls progress forward 2 boys, then back one boy, then forward 2 boys, then back one boy, then forward 2 boys... until eventually, after many many beats, arriving with original boy.

For more variations, look here: http://www.ceder.net/def/query_results.php?from=oldcalls&CallName=tea

Tea Cup Chain

I am about ready (in a couple of weeks) to teach all 4 ladies tea cup chain. Do you have a definition or hint as to a way of teaching it. I usually teach it with head ladies first, then side ladies center and then all 4 ladies center. When I get tot he all 4 ladies chain there's usually a little confusion. However in the past when I started with all 4 ladies first, it seems like there was less confusion.

1. Each lady progresses to their corner, then the opposite, then the left-hand man, then back home.
2. Ladies start with the RIGHT HAND, then alternate hands. Men take whatever hand the Ladies give them.
3. I assume by your message that you want to do ALL FOUR LADIES (center) TEA CUP CHAIN:
   1. R-H Star 3/4 to corner;
   2. turn corner left;
   3. go directly to next man (original opposite); turn right,
   4. L-H Star 1 & 1/4 to next man
   5. right arm turn, then go directory to partner for Courtesy Turn.

Teacup Chain
How do we dance "All 4 ladies center TEACUP CHAIN"?

All ladies do the "Heads" part. That is,

From a Static Set:

1. 4 ladies right-hand star 3/4;
2. left-hand turn corner, boys send girls directly to the next boy (their opposite), no star;
3. right-arm turn opposite, boys send girls to the center;
4. 4 ladies left-hand star 1 & 1/4;
5. right-arm turn left-hand man, boys send girls directly to the next boy (their partner), no star;
6. left-hand to partner for courtesy turn.

Ends in a Static Set.

Ceder Chest Definition of Teacup Chain

The Difference

Is The Difference used only as a suffix? What is the definition? Ben has Cast Off 3/4, Slip, Cast Off 3/4. Galburt has Cast Off 3/4, Very Centers Trade, Cast Off 3/4. With Ben's Slip you can do it only if the centers are in a mini-wave. (Slip= Arm Turn 1/2). Paul's Very Centers must be wrong. I would guess the best definition is Cast Off 3/4, CENTERS Trade, Cast Off 3/4? It would work for all starting formations incl. Tidals.

The Difference:

Cast Off 3/4; Centers Trade; Cast Off 3/4. (3 parts)

Split The Difference:

Box Circulate; Cast Off 3/4; Centers Trade; Cast Off 3/4. (4 parts)

E.g., "The Difference": From Out-Facing Lines: Cast Off 3/4, Centers Trade, Cast Off 3/4.

Touch & Go
Could you please give your definition and one common example of usage for each of these 4 variants: T&G fraction1 by fraction2 T&G anything by fraction T&G fraction by anything T&G anything by anything Are there any default fractions?

Touch & Go <fract1>|<anything1> By <fract2>|<anything2>:

From Columns.

1. 1/2 Circulate;
2. Center 6 Arm Turn <fract1> or do the <anything1> call as the Very Outsides Counter Rotate 1/4;
3. Center 4 Arm Turn <fract2> or do the <anything2> call as Outsides "move up" (the dancer who did the Counter Rotate 1/4 does a 1/2 Press Ahead; the remaining outside dancer does an Isolate).

Touch & Go usually ends in Parallel Waves or Twin Diamonds.

Notes:

• Touch & Go 1/4 By 3/4 is the same as Finish a Stimulate.
• The first fraction must be 1/4 or 3/4, unless the starting formation is strange (e.g., Facing Lines).
• There are no default fractions for this call, although, if someone called Touch & Go without any fractions while I was dancing, I'd assume 1/4 By 1/4, which is the most common usage of Touch & Go.

Examples (from R-H Columns):

• Touch & Go 3/4 By 1/4
• Touch & Go Snake By 1/2
• Touch & Go 1/4 By Run Wild
• Touch & Go Grand 1/4 Thru By Mix

Touch and Cross
My husband and I are dancing at A2 level, and we are perplexed by a call that we have encountered, which is not on your listing. It is "Touch and Cross". Can you give me a definition for this one, please?

Touch and Cross:

From a Single Eight Chain Thru formation.

Touch (i.e., Step to a Wave); Trailers diagonal Left Pull By.

Ends in Back-to-Back Couples.

This is the call 'Touch' (not currenty on any list), followed by the A1-call '{anything} and Cross'.

Touch 1/4 is listed on the Mainstream list, buy the general version of Touch isn't.

Touch {fraction} means Step forward to a right-hand mini-wave and Arm Turn the given fraction, if any. If no fraction is given (i.e., just plain 'Touch'), then step to a right-hand mini-wave.

Ceder Chest Definition of {anything} and cross

Track {n}

Calls are often called from starting formations other than what is specified in the definition. The starting formations in the definition is often regarded only as a suggested standard starting formation. Do you think a Track 0 is legal from any of these starting formations? Starting DPT parallel 2 faced lines parallel RH/LH waves RH/LH columns A tandem trade can be called from any of the above. A Track 0 has no extend, so it dosn't matter that we can't extend when starting from some of the above formations. Even more evil: how about Track 1 from parallel waves. It would end in a 3/4 tag. Or Track 2 from RH/HL columns, ending in a tidal column! Is any of this legal (not necessarily moral)?

As for your evil suggestions, I don't particularly care for them.

Ceder Chest Definition of Track n

Trade By
What's your definition of the call, Trade By? I want it to be simply "Circulate", but I don't know all the legal setups it can start from at Mainstream.

Trade By:

Centers Pass Thru as Outsides Trade.

I've only ever called Trade By from formations where the Outsides are an Out-Facing Couple.

I've called Trade By from the following positions:

1. From a Trade By position (what a surprise!).
2. From the formation obtained after Heads Touch; all Trade, Heads Roll.
3. From a 'Finish Long Trip' formation (i.e., Parallelogram Two-Faced Lines in which those in the Center Box are Facing Couples).
4. From the formation obtained after Heads Pass Thru; all Press Ahead.
5. From a R-H 3/4 Tag.
6. From the formation obtained from Out-Facing Lines after the Belle Couple Press Ahead as the Beau Couple 1/4 Stable Shakedown.

A long time ago, I remember dancing a tape (Lee, I think) where he called Trade By from the formation obtained from R-H Columns after the Centers do a Couple Up. He wanted the Outsides to Trade.

Trade Circulate
If you are in left-handed two-faced lines, do you pass left shoulders or right shoulders? If the trailers stop half-way in a wave, would it be a left-hand or right-hand wave?

Hence, on 1/2 Trade Circulate, Trailers always end in a right-hand Wave.

Ceder Chest Definition of Trade Circulate

Trail and Peel
Since you can Peel and Trail (A-2) and Horseshoe Turn (A-1) is it unresonable to assume that you can call a Trail and Peel (old A-2) and a Horseshoe Bend (old A-1)? I would first workshop them of course. Do you know why they were removed from the list?

I do not think it is unreasonable to teach Trail & Peel, as it should help to solidify the 'concept' of Peel & Trail.

I've never heard of the call 'Horseshoe Bend' (it must be a *very* old A1 call, so old that it was never on the A1 list). 'Cross Horseshoe Turn' (Ends Cross Clover as Centers 1/4 In & Cross Trail Thru) was once on the C2 list, and may be a good choice for an Advanced workshop.

Trail & Peel was removed from the list because it was infrequently used, and does not 'flow' as well as Peel & Trail. Perhaps another reason it was removed is because from a Mini-Wave Box, it was choreographically equivalent to Box|Split Recycle.

Trail Off
We have been discussing Trail Off from various positions and we have no problem with the lead-dancers but we find some variations in the trailer part. e.g. From Columns we have seen 2 versions: Trailers Cross and do a U-turn-back away from the center. Trailers step forward and trade with each other. Which one is the correct? From Z-formation.

1. Technically, the first definition is correct. If the Trailers are both facing the same direction, they should pass Left-shoulders with each other. The pass is a Left-shoulder pass because both dancers are facing the same direction, and hence as one movement they do a Half Sashay then Peel Off, which has the Belle crossing in front of the Beau.
2. From a "Z" (e.g., from a Wave after the Ends Fold), the trailers are facing opposite directions, hence they can step forward and Trade.

Ceder Chest Definition of Trail Off

Trailers Roll

From a completed double pass thru position, with boys leading girls, boys facing heads position, what is the result of calling the following as written "Peel off, trailers roll" Will this result in Double Pass through, girls leading boys, facing sides position or Girls in the center as facing couples, facing sides position with boys on each end facing each other and the heads position. If called as "Peel off and trailers roll" this I think should end as in a) as the roll applies after the peel off is completed. If called as above without the "and" could this be considered as applying to the formation at the commencement of the call. Your expert opinion would be much appreciated.

From a CPDPT, after Peel Off, everyone is a Trailer, hence all Roll. There are better ways of saying things, for example,

1. Peel Off, Boys Roll
2. Peel Off, Girls Roll
3. Peel Off, Original Trailers Roll
4. Peel Off, New Centers Roll
5. Peel Off, New Ends Roll

Transfer The Column
If Transfer the column is started from a starting double pass thru formation, what will be the ending formation? What about from a completed double pass thru formation?

One could probably make a case that on a Transfer The Column from a Starting DPT, everyone does the #3 and #4 part, which would be Circulate (ouch! to same spot, grab R-Hs), Cast Off 3/4, and Extend, to end in a R-H 3/4 Tag formation. However, I don't like it. Callers who use questionable material like this are probably the same callers who think calling Mix from a Diamond is legal, and Motivate from Starting Double Pass Thru is legal.

From a Completed DPT, everyone does their part to end in Facing Lines. Beaus end as Beaus; and Belles end as Belles.

Ceder Chest Definition of Transfer The Column

Trapezoid Recoil
(From Parallel Two-Faced Lines) How would you dance a Trapezoid Recoil? I'm thinking that the smoothest way to dance it is twosome. I have this as a getout, Trapezoid Recoil, Single File Promenade Home.

If you're calling, and want it dance smoother, you should call Couples Twosome Recoil.

Writing it in your card as Couples Twosome instead of It might also make your card last longer, if, for instance, Trapezoid gets dropped from the C3B list.

Triple Star Thru
At what level does "Triple Star Thru" become "those who can" for all 3 parts? (It is certainly called this way at relatively low levels).

At A1, there are two common starting formations for Triple Star Thru:

1. Starting DPT with centers normal and outsides half-sashayed. (Centers do parts 1 and 2; Everybody does part 3)
2. Eight Chain Thru formation with everyone normal couples. (Everybody does parts 1 and 2; Centers do part 3)

As a side note, I've only ever found two other (non-asymmetric) starting formations for Triple Star Thru. The easiest starting formation can be setup from normal facing lines after one of the couples does a Trade & Roll (e.g., from Heads Lead Right, Circle To A Line + Sides Trade & Roll).

Turn and Deal
If the call "turn and deal" cannot be fractionalized, how can we do 2/3 "mini busy"? John Sybalsky's book says that in the call "mini busy", the outfacers do a "turn and deal" and yet when you look at "turn and deal" in Davis and Sybalsky, it says that you cannot fractionalize "turn and deal". How does one handle that obvious conflict?

1. Turn 1/4 to face the center of the line;
2. move forward to the 1/2 tag position;
3. Turn another 1/4 in your initial turning direction.

Callers sometimes teach Turn & Deal with a "turn-step-turn" mantra.

Ceder Chest Definition of Turn & Deal

Turn And Left Thru
Last night our caller called "Turn and Left Through", and no-one knew what to do. I am sure I have done this call before, a long time ago, but when I looked up the definition in your index, it was not there. Can you explain this?

Turn And Left Thru:

From Facing Couples (or a R-H Wave).

Turn Thru; Courtesy Turn.

Ends in Facing Couples.

• Turn And Left Thru is normally called from Half-Sashayed Facing Couples, and ends in Normal Facing Couples.
• Do smoothly dance the call, anticipate the courtesy turn, and start getting ready for it as you complete the Turn Thru.
• Turn And Left Thru was on the Plus list many years ago.

Twist The Line
In the definition of Twist The Line do you think that the breathing for the original Ends must be forward? For example (from a Squared Set): Sides Pass Thru; Twist The Line. If the Heads breathe sideways they are in the center for the Star Thru.

I suppose it's okay, but I don't particularly like it.

Ceder Chest Definition of Twist The Line

Twisted Stable Latch On
How do I dance a Twisted Stable Latch On?

A STABLE LATCH ON is a "Substitute" where the leaders backup to the right as trailers veer to the left, and then all Mirror Single Shuffle . The two dancers exchange places. To TWISTED this movement, do the first half as described above (to end as a couple), then rotate the couple around their center point 90 degrees, then complete the movement.

That is, STABLE RIGHT ROLL TO A WAVE; AS COUPLES 1/4 RIGHT; MIRROR SINGLE SHUFFLE.

Unload The Boat
Maybe you can help with me with something. I am looking for something on UNLOAD THE BOAT. Can you help?

1. According to "The Handbook of Modern Square Dancing" by Jay King...

   UNLOAD THE BOAT (author: Fred Christopher 1967)

   From Eight Chain Thru.
   All California Twirl;
   Centers Pass In and Pass Thru
   as Ends Divide, pass one dancer moving around
   the outside and then Pass Out with the next
   (i.e., Ends 1/4 Out, Circulate, and Pass Out).
   Ends in a Squared Set with everyone facing out.

2. According to the April 1992 issue of "The New View" by Bill Davis...

   UNLOAD THE BOAT (author: Ricky Chatwell 1992)

   From an Eight Chain Thru.
   Pass Thru, Partner Tag, Circulate.
   Ends in Facing Lines.

I like the '1992' version better.

Vertical Tag The Line
What is the difference between a Left Vertical Tag the Line, and a Vertical Left Tag the Line from couples (facing out)?

Left Vertical Tag The Line:

Mirror Single Wheel; Left-shoulder Double Pass Thru.

Vertical Left Tag The Line:

Normal Single Wheel; Left-shoulder Double Pass Thru.

Personally, I never call Vertical Left Tag The Line; and I only use Left Vertical Tag The Line at C3B and above.

I think the usage of either one is at C1 is gimicky.

Ceder Chest Definition of Vertical Tag (The Line)

Walk Out To A Column
When you eventually come to the definition for Walk Out to a Column, how would you word it? The different sources I have consulted all have different wordings. (Sue, Galburt, Ben, the Alexanders)

Trailing Center:

Phantom Column Circulate Twice;

Trailing End:

Circulate then Fold (or perhaps Two "O" Circulates Like A Couple Up?);

Leaders:

Once Removed Single Wheel then Press Ahead

Ends in Columns.

Walk The Clover
What's the definition for the centers initial part of Walk the Clover - hinge or arm turn 1/4?

My definition currently reads as follows:

In-Facing Dancers Step To A Wave, Hinge, then Walk & Dodge, as

Out-Facing Dancers Cloverleaf.

This matches the Jay King definition, and differs from Burlesons in they say an Arm Turn 1/4.

As for it's use with initially, is the first part step to a wave? I dunno. This is not something I'd want to call.

My guess is that if I was dancing, and initially was used...

1. from a 3/4 Line, I'd expect the first part for the centers to be a Hinge; but...
2. from a Trade By, perhaps Centers Initially As Couples, all Walk The Clover might be a Centers As Couples Step to a Wave, then PARTNER HINGE, then walk & dodge?

I guess, I'd make a decision on the fly and make an educated guess as to what the caller wants.

Walk the Clover is screwy.

I've seen it called from:

• L-H Waves
• R-H Waves
• Trade By
• L-H 3/4 Tag
• R-H 3/4 Tag

• 3/4 Line?
• T-Bone formations (above formations with centers rotated 90 degrees).

• Start in Facing Lines, then do a Lines Pass The Ocean Thru.

I think the rule is:

In-Facers Extend or Touch if necessary,

then Outsides Cloverleaf as Centers HINGE (eek) and Walk & Dodge.

I've never particularly liked the fuzziness of this definition.

Weave
Our caller had us in a 1/4 tag and then called Weave. We all had a hard time and then he said Extend, Hinge, Centers Trade. Is this correct?

If you look at our Ceder Chest Definitions, we only define Weave from a Mini-Wave Box, applicable T-Bone Box, or a Single Eight Chain Thru.

From my recollection, the CALLERLAB and Big Five defintions also allow a Single Trade By (expecting the Ends to 1/4 Right as the Centers Left Touch 1/4) which I consider to be illegal.

Ceder Chest Definition of Weave

Wrap to a {formation}
Under the Concepts of Wrap and Unwrap I'm wondering why Butterfly and O,s were not included. Following the same rules as Diamonds, Hourglass, Galaxy it works for me.

I do not know how Wrap to a Butterfly or "O".  It doesn't follow our definition, http://www.ceder.net/def/wrap.php

Specifically, our definition says to do Column Circulates until reaching the #1 spot in the column, at which point you do a 1/2 Circulate, then formation Circulates. I don't see how the #1 dancer works. I.e., I would expect the #1 dancer to do a 1/2 Circulate, then two formation Circulates, which can't be a Butterfly or "O" since the dancer is now on an axis.

What's your definition for Wrap to a Butterfly, or a Wrap to an "O"?

--------------------

UNWRAP the {formation}:

I have no problem with Unwrap The Butterfly.  I call it once in a while.

Unwrap the "O" is slightly more problematic. I'd expect the #3 dancer to lead, then all slide together (afterwards) to form Columns. I consider this legal, but I probably wouldn't call it.

Wrong Way Promenade
On a wrong way promenade, who is in the center? The boys or the girls?

Anybody could be in the Center. It depends on how the caller has set up the Promenade from the previous calls. You can even have 2 girls or 2 boys promenading together.

If you start from a position where you are not paired as couples, you would form a normal couple (Boy on left, Girl on right), and start promenading. In this case, a Reverse Promenade would have the Girl on the inside.

Zip The Top
What's the definition of Zip the Top? What about from a line facing out with the girls in the center, then have one of the girls turn around - a 3 and 1 line. My question is: Who does the U-Turn back? The girls, or one girl and one boy? In other words, do you think you reevaluate who the centers are for the U-Turn Back?

Centers Arm Turn 1/4 and U-Turn Back toward each other as Ends move up 1/4 as in Fan The Top (Isolate).

Usually ends in a Line or Diamond.

Note: I believe that the Centers Arm Turn 1/4 instead of a Hinge. I'd be annoyed if the caller had them facing the same direction (i.e., a Couple) and called Zip The Top. On the other hand, if the caller had the Centers facing prior to the call (e.g., from a Diamond after the Centers 1/4 In), I'd think it would be fine.

Of course, Zip the Top also lends itself to the standard abuse of turning it into an 8-dancer call (e.g., it can be called from Out-Facing Lines after the Centers do a Mini-Chase).

As for who does the U-Turn Back, in my opinion, there is no re-evaluation. Centers Arm Turn 1/4 then U-Turn Back, and the Ends do their part (Isolate).

Zipper formation
I've asked a few people this question and I get different answers. Therefore, I am obviously asking you to get the definitive answer. The question is: In a zipper formation, are the dancers in a two by eight formation or are they in merely a distorted tidal wave?

Hence, a Zipper looks like dancers occupying all the dark spaces from two rows of a chessboard.

A Zipper can easily be created from a 1xN Wave by having everyone 1/2 Press Ahead (or 1/2 Press Back).

X - X - X - X -
- X - X - X - X

Dancers may be facing any direction within the formation. Hence, a Zipper is only a Distorted Tidal Wave if the caller so indicates.

Zoom
Would you call zoom from lines facing in. I believe that would make everyone trailers?

But, on the other hand, if you're doing a workshop, or in-depth teach, it would be appropriate to call Zoom from Facing Lines, to help the dancers fully understand the call.

Instead of using degenerative formations such as Facing Lines... try a sequence such as the following:

   Heads Star Thru
   Just the Boys Zoom
   all Double Pass Thru
   Just the Girls Zoom
   Leaders Trade
   Allemande Left
   RLG

Other things to do with Zoom:

• 1/2 Zoom;
• Zoom 1 & 1/2;
• From Promenade... you can say "Heads Zoom"...(a gimmick to fix an out-of-sequence promenade)

Oh, yes, and, of course... please avoid calling "Centers Zoom" unless you actually want the centers to do the call in the center.

"O" CONCEPT

Our C1 Teacher has given us a problem regarding the legality of: 'O' Tandem Swing Thru and Tandem 'O' Swing Thru 'O' Stretch Swing Thru and Stretch 'O' Swing Thru 'O' Stretch Split Counter Rotate and Stretch 'O' Split Counter Rotate. Only problem is, none of us know what the difference is between: 'O' Tandem and Tandem 'O'. We couldn't find anything in your book. Only thing I can think of is that in one case you have an 'O' with people acting in tandem, and in the other case, you have two 'O's where half of the people are phantoms. (I'm not saying this very well...) Can you provide any guidance? Thanks!

A TANDEM "O" would be a formation consisting of 16-spots. I've never seen anyone call this, since there usually aren't 16 dancers in a square. Hence, an additional modifier such as PHANTOM must be added. For example, PHANTOM TANDEM "O". Such nonsense would usually be considered C4.

As for the 3 questions:

• 'O' Tandem Swing Thru and Tandem 'O' Swing Thru
• 'O' Stretch Swing Thru and Stretch 'O' Swing Thru
• 'O' Stretch Split Counter Rotate and Stretch 'O' Split Counter Rotate.

I have a pet-peeve problem with the last one, however, as 'Stretch' implies 'Split'. So, if I were calling this instance, I'd say "O" STRETCH COUNTER ROTATE 1/4.

Ceder Chest Definition of "O" Formation